A: Lord Brahmā, Lord Viṣṇu, and Lord Śiva. Lord Brahmā is controlling the mode of... Do you know?
Q: Passion?
A: Very good. And Lord Viṣṇu is controlling the mode of...
Q: Goodness?
A: Goodness. He is in charge of the mode of goodness. And Śiva is in charge of the mode of...
Q: Ignorance.
A: Ignorance, very good. So I was reading in the Kṛṣṇa book, it's also there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, about that it was long, long ago there was a big assembly of sages at the Sarasvatī River performing a great sacrifice. And in this meeting, when they were discussing among themselves, one question came up in this meeting, and that was they know there are these three predominating deities: Brahmā, Viṣṇu, and Śiva. And they are directing all the affairs, so very, very powerful positions. But who among them is the supreme? That's the question that came up. And they couldn't come to a clear conclusion. So it's described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that these great sages, they were described as brahmavādinām. And brahmavādinām means those who talk and discuss about the absolute truth, but have not yet come to a clear conclusion about who is the supreme and what is actually the absolute truth. Generally brahmavādī refers to impersonalists or those who are students of the Vedas. So all these sages at this meeting were very serious practitioners of yoga and they were serious students of the Vedas, but they had no definite, clear conclusion of what is the supreme, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So then, after much discussion among themselves, they asked a great sage among them, his name was Bhṛgu. Have you heard about Bhṛgu?
Q: No.
A: So Bhṛgu, he is a son of Lord Brahmā. He was requested to test all these three deities, these powerful controllers in the universe, and test who was in pure sattva-guṇa. So he was asked to perform to do this, so he was accepting that. And then he was going to come back and report to everyone who is the supreme leader. So then he first went to, you know who?
Q: Brahmā?
A: Yes. So Brahmā, his father. And he went to his residence in Brahmaloka. So he was going to test, and do you know how he tested?
Q: He went there without his obeisances.
A: Yes, very good. He didn't show respect, he didn't offer prayers, he didn't even show any sign of respect for meeting his father. And what was his father's reaction?
Q: Lord Brahmā, he became angry.
A: Very angry. Furious. So he was controlled by the mode of passion, actually also mode of ignorance to some degree. Śuddha-sattva is pure goodness, and miśra-sattva is when in different degrees even passion and ignorance is present. In this material world there is not pure goodness generally, but it's mixed sattva. So then he became very, very angry. So what he did, he was even prepared to curse him. But because it was his son, it's explained that he controlled his anger with very powerful intelligence, great intelligence. So in this way, although the quality of passion was prominent in Lord Brahmā, he had the power to control the rajo-guṇa, the passion. So in this way he tested Lord Brahmā. And then next Bhṛgu Muni visited Lord Śiva. He went to Mount Kailāsa, where Lord Śiva resides. And they are brothers, so they had that relationship. As soon as Bhṛgu approached Lord Śiva, Lord Śiva was very glad, very happy to see his brother, and he wanted immediately to come forward and embrace him. And then Bhṛgu Muni tested him in a very severe way: he refused to embrace him. And he said, "My dear brother, you are always very impure, because you smear your body with ashes. And please, please don't touch me." And Śiva immediately became extremely angry when he heard that. An offense can be committed in three ways: with the body, mind, and speech. So he tested Lord Brahmā by being offensive within the mind, and now Lord Śiva by his speech. So because tamo-guṇa is prominent in Lord Śiva, his eyes became red-hot with anger. And what he did, he took up his trident in great anger. And actually he was prepared to kill his brother, kill Bhṛgu. So what saved the situation? Someone knows?
Q: Goddess Pārvatī stopped him from killing.
A: Yes, very good. Pārvatī was present there. And her nature is like Lord Śiva's, it's a mixture of the three modes, and that's why she is also called triguṇamayī. So she saved the situation by awakening Lord Śiva's sattva-guṇa. And how she did it? She fell down at his feet.
prayed for his... and with sweet words she talked him out of killing Bhṛgu Muni. So in this way Bhṛgu Muni tested his brother Lord Śiva. And now he went to Lord Viṣṇu to Śvetadvīpa. So Lord Viṣṇu was lying on a bed of flowers, and in company with his wife, the goddess of fortune, and she was massaging his lotus feet. Now he purposely committed the greatest offense. Actually when you think about it, such a great risk. He did it as a service on the order of the other sages, but a great risk actually with these personalities. So now when he entered, he just was kicking the chest of Lord Viṣṇu. And he was kicking it very hard, as hard as he could. And the goddess of fortune, she was present. You can understand her reaction when she saw this. But Lord Viṣṇu, he didn't become angry, not at all. So Bhṛgu Muni, he was known to be a great brahmana, a very advanced brahmana, well-known at this time. So a brahmana generally is excused, and even if one sometimes commits... so Lord Viṣṇu showed that example that he excused for doing this great offense. So it's stated in Bhagavad-gītā:
yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
tat tad evetarojanaḥ
sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
lokas tad anuvartate
Whatever action a great person performs, common men will follow. And the example that person sets by his activities, the world will follow. So you can see people in general have different personalities they admire, and naturally they are very much influenced by those who they admire. In modern times, it might be musicians, or sports stars, or different kinds of famous personalities. They are influencing people very, very much. So the example of those who are famous in position, it should actually be exemplary. They should have a spotless character. That's the duty. And Kṛṣṇa Himself showed that example, that He was just excusing Bhṛgu Muni, although being kicked hard in the stomach. So He didn't become angry, and actually, rather the opposite. Instead of being angry or cursing Bhṛgu, Lord Viṣṇu immediately got up from His bed, together with the goddess of fortune. And He offered respect first of all to Bhṛgu Muni, welcomed him. And He was very happy to see him, although he came there and kicked Him in the chest. It didn't affect Him. He was just, "I am very, very grateful you have come here, great brahmana." And so He offered respects, and He addressed him like this: "My dear brahmana, it is My greatest fortune that you have come here to My home. I am very, very sorry that when you entered My home, I could not receive you properly." So that was His approach, His mode. And He even said, "That was a great offense on My part that I couldn't receive you in the proper way. I beg you, pardon Me. Please excuse Me." And it came from the heart. When Lord Viṣṇu is acting, it's not like a show. It's like real feelings of humility and appreciation for this great sage. And He said, "You are pure. You are so great." He said even, Lord Viṣṇu, that "the water which washes your feet can purify even all places of pilgrimage." And then He asked him, "Therefore I request you, please come to the Vaikuṇṭha planets where I live with My associates, and purify My abode." So that was Lord Viṣṇu's approach, śuddha-sattva, pure goodness, not tinged with any mode of passion and ignorance. And then He continued, "Oh great sage, I know your feet are very soft, very delicate, like a lotus flower, very soft. And My chest, it is hard like a thunderbolt. So I am afraid that you may have felt some pain when you were kicking My chest."
So it's wonderful to see the character of the Supreme Lord. That's why we worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Rāma, because They have all the good qualities. They are really worthy to worship, pure, spotless character. And then Lord Viṣṇu, He said, "Let Me touch your feet to relieve you from the pain you have suffered." And then Lord Viṣṇu began to massage the feet of Bhṛgu Muni. So this is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He even said, "My dear Lord," to Bhṛgu Muni, "that My chest has now become sanctified because of the touch of your feet."
So Bhṛgu, he could understand his position, he could understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead's position. And he was struck with wonder, very, very touched. When he approached Lord Brahmā first and Lord Śiva, great, great personalities, but how they were influenced also by the modes of nature. And now when Lord Viṣṇu was showing His real nature, he was struck with wonder. And because of his gratitude, his voice choked up. He was so grateful. So he was just unable to reply to the Lord. And tears were gliding down from his eyes. And he could say nothing. He just stood there silently before the Lord for a long time. And the Lord so much appreciated his humility, his character, and although he couldn't express any prayers and feelings...
The Lord understood. So in our lives, the Lord is here as a paramātmā. The Lord knows everything about our situation. That we are all in unique situations, and there are many naturally challenges and problems physically, mentally, spiritually. Life is not easy. And the Lord knows everything. Consciousness, it can be a great help if we reveal our heart, our minds to our friend, the paramātmā, the Lord in the heart. So it's recommended we should also reveal our minds to devotees who we have faith in and that we can take shelter of, that's very, very important. But also we should know Lord Viṣṇu is here as a paramātmā. Such a blessing. The Lord is here in the heart. And not only sometimes, all the time. All the time, the Lord is there. And even as it's explained in Bhagavad-gītā:
sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
that "I am situated in everyone's heart, and from Me comes remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness."
So when we remember things, we can understand, "Oh, it's the paramātmā in the heart who gives this remembrance." Knowledge, forgetfulness... we forget things. So the Lord in the heart is giving remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. So if we can develop such a habit to have a conversation with the Lord in the heart, speak with the Lord in the heart as a friend, and that the Lord kindly should guide us on the right path, because there are so many dangers on the way in this material world. The material world is a very dangerous place. So, but by Lord paramātmā's grace, He can also inspire us to go in the right direction. I remember one disciple of Prabhupāda, he said that he was in a situation where he was doubtful, "Should I do this or should I do that?" And Prabhupāda at that point, I think he wrote in a letter, he said that, "If you're doubtful, you put a question before the Lord in the heart, and you chant very sincerely." Very sincerely. And then the Lord will give. So it's an interesting answer Prabhupāda gave. So we can try to take the opportunity to remember how the Lord is so close to us, and He's our best friend. He's not trying to manipulate us, He don't have any hidden motives, His motive is just pure. And so that's an opportunity we have. So for Bhṛgu Muni, the tears were gliding down, and he could say nothing. He just stood there silently, as we said. But the Lord so much appreciated his mood. And then he has left, and he returned to the assembly on the bank of the Sarasvatī, they were all there gathered. And then he described in detail all the experiences he had. So after hearing these details, the sages were, they were astonished. Just like he was astonished, they were deeply moved. And as we said in the beginning, it was not clear for them who is actually the Supreme. Now they understood. It was clear for everyone. So they concluded of the three party-predominating deities, Lord Viṣṇu is absolute truth, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the cause of all causes. So this story is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and given also by Śrīla Prabhupāda in the Kṛṣṇa book. So I heard one analogy in this regard, an example, how Lord Viṣṇu, and if we take shelter of the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, how we can be so very much unaffected by the external circumstances. The example is a small lamp may be agitated by just a little breeze. A small lamp, a candle, just a little wind, and immediately there is agitation. But the greatest illumination, the source of all light, the sun, is never moved, even by the greatest hurricane. Now we have a little storm here today, 17 meters around that, a little storm. But a hurricane and the big storms sometimes taking place here on earth, they are very severe. But the greatest winds taking place at the devastation of the universe, we cannot even imagine. But the sun is never moved, even by the greatest storms or hurricanes. So in a similar way, when we take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, take shelter of the Lord's holy name, take shelter in the association of devotees, hearing and chanting together, we can become, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness becomes more and more deep, and then we are not affected. Like the candle is affected by a little wind, but we can be more like the sun, never moved, even by the greatest hurricane. Because Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was severely tested, he was just so fixed in his meditation on, he simply wanted to please his guru-mahārāja, that was his constant ambition, his life and soul. So that is a sādhu. So Prabhupāda, he gives in this chapter, he gives a definition of what is greatness. It's a very wonderful phrase. So Prabhupāda said like this about what is greatness: "One's greatness has to be estimated according to one's ability to tolerate provoking situations." So I repeat it again: "One's greatness has to be estimated according to one's ability to tolerate provoking situations."
So we are all tested. But that's actually the greatness, how we can tolerate it for a higher cause. And tolerate means we are more dependent on Kṛṣṇa, otherwise we cannot tolerate in the proper way.
If we tolerate, that has the effect that we become more and more dependent on the Lord. Dependent on the holy name, dependent on the association, the good association of devotees, and hearing and chanting together with devotees, then we can tolerate in a healthy way, very much pleasing the Lord. So one's greatness has to be estimated according to one's ability to tolerate provoking situations. So maybe you have any questions, comments, something we can discuss?
Q: You mentioned to address to the Supersoul in your heart whenever you have a question. How do you understand that the reply you get is not a fabrication of your mind?
A: That's a good question. That can happen. But one has to be very sincere and also understand we have guru, sādhu, and śāstra. So one has to double check. Maybe you really feel something from your heart and you feel Kṛṣṇa is telling me something, but just to be sure, one is also checking with devotees who are sincere followers, and also with guru succession, and with the śāstra, guru, sādhu, and śāstra. So in that way we become more serious. There was one example how Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, he had some... I cannot remember exactly, but he was in India and he had to make one quite acute... and Prabhupāda actually came to the hospital because he wanted to stop it. He thought it's better to do it in the West, this kind of surgery. So he came there, I think it was from Juhu Beach to the hospital in a jeep with a devotee, but then the surgery had already been done. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja when he woke up, Prabhupāda was there. And so then he told Prabhupāda, "I had a dream." And it's similar with dreams, deep dreams, some instructions also in dreams. So it's important also to get it confirmed. So he could ask. So what he dreamed, he said he was counting down when he got this... what do you call it?
Q: Anesthesia.
A: Anesthesia. So he was counting down and he was meditating on the Deities, Rādhā-Rasabihārī in Mumbai, and then he just went into sleep. And what he dreamed was that Prabhupāda was giving a report to guru-paramparā... maybe the Supreme Lord was also there, I cannot remember, but he gave a report about the saṅkīrtana movement, how it was going, the preaching. And then he said that, "Actually, my disciples have no qualification. It's kali-yuga, and they are struggling, they have many problems also," as we also have, struggling. "But," he said, "they have one good quality, that they are following me. They are serious in taking my instructions and they have faith in me." So that was very much appreciated at that meeting. So that was a dream. So Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja when he woke up, he told Prabhupāda about it. And then Prabhupāda confirmed. He said, "Yes, actually it's so." So it just came to my mind to get it confirmed. If it's a dream or if it's some inspiration, "Should I go in that direction? Maybe it's the Lord." But good to get it confirmed. The Lord is acting in the association of devotees, sincere devotees. He's also acting. I have many experiences of that, actually, that the Lord is acting through His devotees. So one should be not too sure. One should get it confirmed. What is your experience?
Q: Just some random thoughts.
A: Okay.
Q: Regarding tolerance. So how do we know or how much should we tolerate? What is the point at which we should not tolerate? I just want to give example of in Mahābhārata, the Pāṇḍavas, they tolerated so much, but at the final, a lot of things happened to them and Kṛṣṇa then He guided that you should fight. So in our lives, how much to tolerate? When do we know that, yes, this is the end, it should not go... I mean, should we tolerate beyond our capacity or how... what is that?
A: I'm thinking about the example again with Prabhupāda, that his life was just centered around the instructions he got from Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Mahārāja Prabhupāda. And everything he did was... he was accepting that which was favorable for executing the order of his guru-mahārāja, and rejecting that which was not favorable. So so much he tolerated, and he worked so enthusiastically and hard, and sometimes there was no result, but he was tolerating this. He didn't hesitate. Like going on Jaladūta, the seasickness and heart attacks, and he was just tolerating all these things. He was not thinking, "To go back, it's just too much. What's the use?" He was just tolerating it. I was reading about when Prabhupāda came in 1965 to... what's the name now? The first stop Prabhupāda had, it was in Butler, Pennsylvania. So Mrs. Agarwal, Sally Agarwal, she was describing Prabhupāda's character and how tolerant he was. She said he was the easiest guest she ever had in her life. Because when she couldn't spend time with Prabhupāda... he was a guest in her home for one month. So when you have a guest around, you feel sometimes the pressure you have to, you know, make them comfortable or have some conversation and like that. But she said that, "When I had to do other duties, take care of my children, different duties, I know perfectly well he was just completely happy chanting."
So there was she never felt any pressure or tension having him around, so to say, in their home. And one example there how he tolerated, when people came around, especially at that time, people were smoking cigarettes. In the 1960s, it was the culture, you smoked anywhere, everywhere. I remember when I was a child, everywhere there was smoking going on. So people came there and they were smoking, and Sally and her husband were also smoking. So she excused herself to Prabhupāda, that "Sorry, there's so much smoke." But Prabhupāda, he paid no attention to that, "Think nothing of it." Because he could see, that's their habit, that's the culture. He couldn't change it like that. So then he tolerated it for a higher cause. I was just meditating about my Guru Mahārāja, somehow or other sent me here. Now I'm here for a few weeks, and Prabhupāda what he did for that month in Butler, Pennsylvania, he was just observing the American ways. And he was very happy, he could see that they could understand his accent, his English, and he could see that they were curious. People were curious. So he tolerated the smoking cigarettes. So that's a simple principle that we have to... if it's favorable for our guru's instructions, orders, then we can tolerate things. Is it okay? Yes.
Q: There was once also that Prabhupāda was in an airplane with the devotees, they were sitting together, and I think it was a non-smoking area. And then some people started to smoke. And one of the disciples, I forgot who, he got upset, so he went over and told them to stop. Then he went back. And after some time, they started smoking again, if I remember correctly. And then he got really angry and upset, and he wanted to go there again to tell them. But then Prabhupāda said to him then, "Just tolerate. Otherwise, what's the difference between them and us, if we cannot tolerate?"
A: That's a very nice example. I remember that. It was Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, and they were... It was actually Prabhupāda was first time going to South Africa, from Kenya. And on board the airplane was a football team, African football team. And they had won the match, so they were upbeat, they were happy. And so it was a non-smoking area, and they were drinking, and then they started light up cigarettes. So Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, he became very upset, and he told the steward first that they are smoking, and she went there and told them, but because of drinking, sometimes they didn't care. And then Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja, he became angry and he was going to confront them himself. And then Prabhupāda saw that. And he said, "Where are you going?"
And Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja said that he wanted to stop the smoking. And then, like you said, "What's the difference between us and them if we cannot tolerate?" Because Prabhupāda, he could just see they are drunk. And to stop them at this particular point, it would be such a big thing. Better just, okay, tolerate it. So according to time, place, and circumstances, one has to see when to tolerate. But Prabhupāda also could be very, very strong and firm and direct according to time, place, and circumstances for the benefit of others. It's very interesting to see how Prabhupāda was dealing in different situations. That you see when we read the biographies of Śrīla Prabhupāda, or hear the Prabhupāda memories, we can see in a practical way in detail how Prabhupāda could deal with different persons and differently for their benefit and also for the benefit of others. Sometimes it's a delicate thing.
Q: Prabhu here was referring to the Mahābhārata.
A: Yes.
Q: And there was a lot of intolerance in the Mahābhārata. What I want to say is it's a question of context. Mahābhārata deals mainly about the dharma that Kṛṣṇa rejects at the end of Bhagavad-gītā. Dharma is good, but this is naimittika-dharma, the temporary dharma, following Manu-smṛti and all these things. We're speaking about Prabhupāda speaking about devotees, Vaiṣṇavas. They are following the nitya-dharma, jaiva-dharma, spiritual, right? So the benchmark for that dharma is given by Mahāprabhu in Śikṣāṣṭaka: tṛṇād api sunīcena taror iva sahiṣṇunā amāninā mānadena. So if you want to know to which degree you should tolerate, you should look at the tree. You should be more tolerant than the tree, right? For yourself. Like Prabhupāda gave this wonderful example like Prabhu here was saying, the only time Vaiṣṇavas are not tolerant is when other Vaiṣṇavas are being offended, insulted, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But for oneself, Bhīṣma gave the example: you kick him in the chest, and, "Oh, was it too hard?" So it's the context. Mundane dharma, yes, and then transcendental dharma, then look at the tree.
A: Very nice. Thank you. Your daughter left?
Q: My question was, the sage Bhṛgu, he was kicking at Kṛṣṇa's chest. So Lakṣmī, did she not say anything that, "Why are you doing that?" Or something, "Why are you kicking at the chest?"
A: For Lord Viṣṇu? Lord Viṣṇu's chest, Bhṛgu. Yes.
Q: That harmed Lakṣmī.
A: Lakṣmī, yes, she actually became very upset, so upset that it's explained that generally after this incident, they are not very wealthy. They are more poor. As a reaction of that offense, she was also tolerating it because her husband, Viṣṇu, was tolerating, but deep inside she also felt...
A: She was upset. As a reaction of that, the brāhmaṇas, even up to today, generally are not so wealthy. Such a nice question. Something else?
Q: If there are more questions, we still have some time, otherwise maybe we have the kīrtana.
Q: But when it came to Prabhupāda's disciples, he was often not tolerating so many things. He was quite heavy and chastising them for their own benefit. Like Śyāmasundara prabhu, he was carving these Jagannātha deities, and then Prabhupāda came there to look at it, and then he saw this pack of cigarettes because he was still smoking at that time, and with his cane he kind of kicked away this and said, "Don't do this. Don't let such a small thing like a cigarette harm Kṛṣṇa." He came to correct and train his disciples, he was very strict.
A: But I also remember in that connection with Śyāmasundara smoking cigarettes that Prabhupāda suggested one less every day. So also in a very merciful and practical way, giving an opportunity how to renounce it. It's very... what we experience now, sitting together with devotees, just in a simple way, hearing, chanting, discussing kṛṣṇa-kathā and so on, it's so powerful. When we sit alone, we all have our private sādhanā, chanting at home, reading, hearing and so on, and it's very, very important, our personal sādhanā, but also how important this is, to come together with devotees. Really, in the association of devotees, we become quickly purified.
Q: I can't help but thinking how nice this lady's question fitted into the context. The Supreme Personality of Godhead was insulted and offended, and Lakṣmī-devī is a great Vaiṣṇavī, she is the śakti of Bhagavān. So, she was not tolerating, but because her almighty husband was there and was tolerating, but in her own mind, like you said, the brāhmaṇas, they are not going to get any Lakṣmī from me. So she kind of expressed her...
A: Very nice question. Thank you. And also that the example of that if Lakṣmī didn't tolerate deep inside, there was some reaction there, but also when we hear devotees blasphemed or the Lord is blasphemed, we should also react strongly. And Prabhupāda showed that example too. I remember in kīrtana there was physically in the audience, the devotees were dancing on the stage in kīrtana, and then some in the audience, in a very demonic way, they tried to drag the devotees down, I think especially the ladies, tear their saris and drag them down. And Prabhupāda saw that, and he became like a lion. And he was jumping up with his karatālas and he was swinging them, and he was even hitting them. So that's an example that we don't tolerate when there is blasphemy or attack against devotees. That's our duty to react. So, maybe we should stop here? What's the time? It's 23 minutes past.
Q: If there are no other questions... Does anyone have questions? Everyone is satisfied? So then, thank you.