So here it is described how creation takes place, how we, the living entities, make our glorious appearance in this world by impregnation of the Supreme Lord. And we all know this example, we all have experience of a similar process in the material world. There also we have a mother and a father. That's what we all have, that's how we are here, why we are here. And so, in a similar way, if this takes place on a small scale, this is also taking place for the whole material world. The material nature provides the bodies, the mother, mother nature, we say. So the mother provides the body, but the life, the soul, is given by Krsna, is impregnated by Krsna, the seed-giving father. This is what Krsna says Himself in Bhagavad-gita: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. "I am the seed-giving father of all living entities." So Srila Prabhupada says very clearly, this idea or this suggestion that the living entities come into existence by the interaction of material elements is not supported here. This is not part of Vedic understanding. These modern scientists, they may try very hard to explain this to us, they may even believe it themselves, but it is not very logical. We don't have any experience of this. How something superior can come from something inferior? This is not possible. Something inferior can come from something superior because some of the qualities of the superior may also be there in the inferior, it may have less than what the original has, but the other way around, this is not possible. How from something inferior something superior can come? How is that supposed to happen? How logical is this? It's not logical at all, and yet this is the modern theory. And because it's presented by so-called scientists, people tend to believe this. They don't really think about this. And Srila Prabhupada explains in the purport how the material world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual world. And Srila Prabhupada gives a wonderful example, as he always does give so many wonderful examples to help us understand this deep philosophy. He's saying that the spiritual world is like fire and the material world is like heat. A wonderful example, so simple and yet so obvious. Now, what does he mean by this? He is explaining, he says, in the spiritual world, Krsna is like fire. Fire is something we can all see. To perceive fire is very easy. You can just see it. It has form and you can see it and you understand it is existing. So you don't doubt its existence because you see it directly. In the material world, there is heat. Now, when we are somewhere and we feel some heat, we feel the presence of heat, what does it mean? There must be some fire somewhere nearby. Because without fire there is no heat. So even though we may not see the fire, we can conclude, "Aha, there is some heat here, there must be some fire somewhere hidden from my eyesight. I cannot see it, but it must be there, because without fire there is no heat."
It's so obvious, it's so simple, but so wonderfully explained by Srila Prabhupada, so even dull-minded Kali-yuga people like us can understand this. It's so obvious. It's so wonderfully explained by Srila Prabhupada. There is heat, there must be some fire. It's so obvious. We see some intelligence, that this is not all, this whole material world, this whole creation is not all some chaos, even though we are trying hard to make a big chaos out of it, by nature it has an order, perfect order. There's a great intelligence behind this. So even though we may not see this intelligence, we may not see Krsna, but still from the intelligent arrangement which we perceive, we can understand there must be some Krsna. Because how, without Krsna, without God, there could be such a perfect order, there could be such an intelligent design, such an intelligent arrangement? It's not possible. So this is an argument we have heard a million times: "Why, you Hare Krsna people, you claim there is a God, and He has a name even, Krsna. But can you show me God? I want to see God." And if they don't see, they will not believe that there is a God. But this is not how you can perceive God, this is not how you can see God, this is not how you can feel the presence of God. It's not that God is supposed to do something that you believe in Him. It's not that He is obligated to do something so that you accept kindly His existence. It's us who should try to understand His existence, not to do Him a favor, but to do ourselves a favor, for our sake. We are profiting, we are benefiting if we understand that there is a God and what He is like, and that we are His parts and we have an eternal relationship. We are benefiting from this. He doesn't care. It doesn't mean anything to Him. So here in the Third Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Kapiladeva is in very great detail describing the nature of the material world, how it's coming into existence and then how it's maintained for some time and then dissolved, and then coming into existence again. And we may wonder, what is this all for? What is this good for? Why so much trouble? Why so many elaborate arrangements? So I think there's at least two reasons why this material world is coming into existence again and again and again. And now it's time for audience participation so you may not fall asleep. So I would like to ask somebody, can somebody give one or even two reasons why? Yes.
Q: One reason is that the living entity has a desire to enjoy independent from Krsna. Krsna supplies that.
A: Yes, wonderful. You can even state the second reason as well.
Q: The second reason is that when the soul is tired of trying to enjoy in this material world, he can return to Krsna, go back.
A: Yes. Krsna is, for one thing, fulfilling the desire of the living entity to supply a playground for him to live out his foolish ambition trying to be God, pretending to be God. And on the other hand, Krsna is hoping, when will these fools already have suffered enough and come to their senses and come back to where they belong. So Krsna is doing this, He's supplying this creation so that we get a chance to go back to Krsna. That's why this huge arrangement is there, why so much trouble is taken, so that we may take advantage and go back to Krsna. And so, when the creation is coming to an end, every living entity is embodied. All of us are embodied in some specific, according to our karma, in some specific form, whatever that may be. And then the dissolution comes...
There's nothing going on for some time, and then the material world is created again. And then the bodies are all there. All these different forms of living entities, Srila Prabhupada mentions, some demigods, the human beings, the beasts, the birds, they're all there. And due to this impregnation of the Lord sending spirit souls into the material world, there are already bodies in which they enter. And they enter in the same bodies in which they left at the time of dissolution. Because according to karma, every living entity has a specific time he or she has to spend in a particular body. And when the dissolution takes place, that period may not be up. It may be just somewhere in the middle. So that living entity still has some time in this body. So this is the first body the living entity takes when the creation starts again, same body. Doesn't mean the exact same body, but the same species. If at the time of dissolution, the spirit soul was in the body of a fish, for example, the first body that living entity will take when the new creation takes place is the body of a fish, finish his destined time in that species, in that form of body, and then move on to other bodies. So, Srila Prabhupada explains very clearly this idea of Darwin, that in the beginning there was just some primordial soup, there was just like one or two chemical elements, and then some more mysteriously were added, and some more, some hydrogen or whatever, and then life was possible. And then some small, insignificant bacteria, they developed, and then on and on, and then here we are, millions of years later, human beings. Congratulations, welcome to the material world. This is all nonsense. No, all the bodies are there. Otherwise, how would it be possible that Brahma is the first born? The lifetime of the universe is measured in his, that's his lifetime. The lifetime of the universe is his lifetime, hundred years of Brahma. And he is the most intelligent, his body is composed of pure intelligence. He has no gross physical body like us. So, by their logic, until from a one-celled living entity, it would go all the way up to Brahma, he would only appear after millions and billions of years, because he's the most intelligent, he's the most developed, he lives on the highest planet in the material world, Brahmaloka, close next, well, practically to Vaikuntha. So, all their explanations, all their knowledge and theories, they're all topsy-turvy, it's all the other way around. Brahma is the first-born living entity, and he supplies all these necessary bodies in which Krsna impregnates the spirit souls. That's how it is explained. And that's how we can take it. We don't know any better. We can just speculate. We can just call it science and call it knowledge or whatever, but it's all just speculation, it's all just not possible to find it out this way. If we want to understand what really happened or how it really happened or why it happens, we have to take knowledge from the Vedas. This is not ordinary knowledge. The Veda is the breathing of Visnu. That's the difference between Visnu and us. When we breathe out, people, they go one step behind. And that's why people have to use some spray for their mouth, so it's not so intolerable for others. That's our breath. But when Krsna, when Visnu breathes, the Vedas come out. Only later, Vyasadeva, at the beginning of Kali-yuga, the end of Dvapara-yuga, Vyasadeva, the literary incarnation of Krsna, took the trouble to write it down, because there was a need for it. In the olden days, people didn't need books. They could just hear something from their guru, and they could remember. But then, Vyasadeva could see that in Kali-yuga, people will have such a short, bad memory, they will not be able to remember things. So, they need books so they can read it again and again. So, Vyasadeva wrote it down. But actually, the Veda is the breathing of Visnu. And not only when Krsna does something, when Visnu does something it is spectacular and extraordinary, when His associates do, it is also. Just like His carrier, Garuda. Garuda, he's flapping his wings when he is carrying Visnu to different places. And while he is flapping his wings, the Sama-veda is coming out. When ordinary birds fly and flap their wings, just some air is coming, going about. But when Garuda flaps his wings, the Sama-veda is produced, is coming into existence. So, this is not some ordinary knowledge we are talking about. This knowledge is non-different from Krsna, because it comes directly from Krsna. And we know that everything in relationship to Krsna is Krsna. There's no difference between Krsna and His names, His paraphernalia, His qualities, His activities, His dhama, and so forth. There's no difference. So, this Vedic knowledge is not some ordinary knowledge. It's not some knowledge from the bookstore. That's why we don't care to read Time magazine every morning, or read so many other books. No, we read Srimad-Bhagavatam, because we understand that this is not some ordinary knowledge, this is knowledge coming directly from Krsna. And when Krsna explains things, we can accept that as being true, as being reality, because nobody would know better than Krsna. He created this all. He thought about all of these things. His intelligence is behind all of this, so who knows better how it works than Himself? So, when He explains it, we can just take it at that. It may not always sound logical to us, because we are so limited in our understanding, our intelligence is so small. But we have no better source, so we may as well take that until we find something better. No, we will try to be satisfied with that. So, Janeshvara Prabhu so nicely explained the second reason why this material world is going on and on and on. And I don't want to get more into this really, more into detail, because you are all invited, of course, to read the Third Canto yourself if you're interested to find out more about the material world and how it's created. If you're scientifically minded, then you're welcome, you're invited to read the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the Third Canto, Teachings of Lord Kapila. And if you're not satisfied, and if you want more, you can read the Eleventh Canto of the Bhagavatam. There also the Nava-yogendras explain in great detail about the nature of the material world to Maharaja Nimi. So, you can read this yourself. There's no need to discuss this for hours. But Janeshvara Prabhu explained that Krsna is doing this so that we get a chance to leave this material world and go back to Krsna, to our eternal home. And so, this was in fact one of the questions Maharaja Nimi asked the Nava-yogendras: "How to get out of this? Now you have explained in great detail the nature of this material world, how it comes about, how creation takes place, but how to get out of this?"
And one of the Nava-yogendras, Antariksa...
Sri Antariksa, he is giving a wonderful answer. And I would like to read these two verses to you, because they are just so nice. They are the answer how to do this, how to get out of this material world.
{{
śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ dhyānaṁ
harer adbhuta-karmaṇaḥ
janma-karma-guṇānāṁ ca
tad-arthe 'khila-ceṣṭitam
īṣṭaṁ dattaṁ tapo japtaṁ
vṛttaṁ yaccātmano priyam
dārān sutān gṛhān prāṇān
yat parasmai nivedanam
}}
And that means one should hear, glorify, and meditate upon the wonderful transcendental activities of the Lord. One should specifically become absorbed in the appearance, activities, qualities, and holy names of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Thus inspired, one should perform all of one's daily activities as an offering to the Lord. One should perform sacrifice, charity, and penance exclusively for the Lord's satisfaction. Similarly, one should chant only those mantras which glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and all one's religious activities should be performed as an offering to the Lord. Whatever one finds pleasing or enjoyable he should immediately offer to the Supreme Lord, and even his wife, children, home, and very life air he should offer at the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So, this is a very nice answer he is giving here to Maharaja Nimi, and so to all of us, how we can leave this material world, how we can get out of it, how we can leave it for good. And so, he is saying here, one should specifically become absorbed in the appearance, activities, qualities, and holy names of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So, and I thought we could just, for the rest of the time, do just that: absorb ourselves in the appearance and spiritual activities of the Supreme Lord, in the hope, among other things... Of course, to please Krsna, and also to hope at the end of this life to go back — Jaya Pañca-tattva — go back to the spiritual world. And I don't know exactly when, but I think sometime soon there will be Govardhana-puja. Usually, it's in October, in Kārtika time, so it couldn't be far away. I don't know the exact date, but it's sometime soon, no? Anyway, it's not so important. It doesn't matter a day or two more or less, but it's coming very soon. So, I thought this is a very good opportunity to talk a little bit about that specific appearance of Krsna and that specific pastime of Krsna. And we all know, we have heard it so many times and read it probably also, that Krsna, He lifted Govardhana Hill for seven days on the little finger of His left hand. And, of course, the Govardhana Hill is not big enough, really, that all the residents of Vrndavana, and especially their cows — they had so many cows — they would not have had place under the Govardhana Hill. So, somebody may wonder about this: how was this possible? All the inhabitants of Vrndavana and all their cows and calves, they were all protected by this Govardhana Hill like a huge umbrella, but it wasn't big enough. So, it doesn't fit together. So, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, he's explaining that by the touch of Krsna, Govardhana Hill became so ecstatic, he expanded, and he became much bigger, big enough so that all of them could fit underneath. Okay, so now here we are in Vrndavana, and an offended Indra sends all of these Saṁvartaka rain clouds and brings a lot of rain and a lot of thunder and whatnot, terrible weather, and wants to punish the Vrajavasis for their offense against him. And all the inhabitants and all the cows and calves are under the umbrella, so there's no harm for them. But what about the animals on the hill? Did you ever think about that? I mean, on every hill there are some animals, some deer, and some, what do I know, birds, and so many animals are there on the mountain also. So, but Krsna lifted this mountain, so what about them? They are also residents of Vrndavana, they are also Vrajavasis, no? Yes, they are. So, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains so nicely that when Krsna lifted the hill, the peak of Govardhana Hill was beyond the clouds. It was so high, it was beyond the clouds. And so, all the animals on the hill who were on the edge of the hill, they ran towards the peak, and so they were above the clouds, and so they also didn't get any rain. So, this is how Krsna protected all the residents of Vrndavana, under the Govardhana Hill or on top of the Govardhana Hill. And Indra was very frustrated because he could not punish anyone. Krsna has a real sense of humor, really. Krsna really knows how to do things in such a wonderful way. It's just fascinating. It's just so nice to meditate about how Krsna is doing things, how He is accomplishing so many purposes with one activity. Just like the gopis, Krsna's dearest devotees, they, of course, they were always very sad when Krsna went out on the pastures with the cows, because that was the time when they could not see Him. They were separated from Him, and for them this was just horrible. They even cursed Brahma, said, "What a useless creator you are! You have made these eyes, and they have to blink every so often. What a fool you are anyway, because for that split second we cannot see Krsna! So, what is the use of these eyes?" So, for them to not be able to see Krsna, this is like, what does Lord Caitanya say, yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa, it's like a whole yuga, one moment appears like a long yuga. So, the gopis were not very satisfied when Krsna goes out on the pastures, because they have to wait until evening until He comes back so they can see Him again. So, what does Krsna do? He's lifting the hill, and He's calling everyone, "Come on! Come on here, I will protect you!" And for seven days and nights, He and all the Vrajavasis are under this umbrella, under the Govardhana Hill. Krsna couldn't go anywhere because He had this hill on His pinky, so He couldn't go anywhere. He was just standing there for seven days and seven nights non-stop, just like we noticed — we heard this before — seven days, seven nights, rings a bell with you? Yes, Sukadeva Gosvami was speaking for seven days and seven nights non-stop Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to Maharaja Pariksit. So, here also we have Krsna for seven days and seven nights lifting Govardhana Hill. Now, in this time, all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, and especially the gopis, at last they could see Krsna non-stop, every day, every night. Krsna couldn't go, because He held the umbrella, He was holding the hill, so He couldn't go anywhere. And all the residents of Vrndavana, they became so ecstatic, so satisfied, just looking at Krsna.
"What is He doing now again? He has already done so many far-out things, but now He's really topping Himself. He's just lifting a hill to protect us. How wonderful is this Krsna."
They were so amazed, they were so happy, so ecstatic, they forgot all about eating and drinking and sleeping, just like Maharaja Pariksit. Because they couldn't go anywhere else, as soon as they would leave the shelter of the hill, there would be all this rain, and anyway there was no place to go because there was water everywhere. But they didn't want to go home to get some food because they were just satisfied looking at Krsna. They just couldn't take their eyes off Him. And Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains that it's not that some residents of Vrndavana saw Krsna from the front and some from the back. No! Try to figure this out! They all saw Krsna from the front. They all saw His beautiful face. Even though they were at different places under the hill, but they all saw Krsna from the front. Try to figure this out. This is Krsna. This is why if you look in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the chapter after the chapter which is describing this līlā of Krsna lifting Govardhana, it's called "Wonderful Krsna." That's the name of the chapter after the līlā of Govardhana Hill. "Wonderful Krsna," because that's what He is. He's just wonderful. He's just doing things in such a far-out way, in such a spectacular way that we will need a long time to try to figure this all out, try to understand a little bit of it. And we can take the help of the ācāryas, like for example Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, who is explaining these things in such a nice way, in such a sweet, humorous way. It's just so wonderful to read these commentaries of Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura for the Tenth Canto. He is giving such a deep insight into these pastimes of Krsna. He is bringing out so many details which are not there in the text itself when Sukadeva Gosvami is speaking these verses. So Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura is finding so much more, reading between the lines you could say, he's finding so much more there. And it's so nice to read these realizations and these insights of the ācāryas. It's so sweet, it's so nice. It's so helpful to try to understand Krsna better, His nature and why and how He's doing things. We all know Krsna, He is playing His flute. And He's not just an ordinary flute player. When Krsna is playing His flute, this is not just music. It is just such an attractive, wonderful vibration that when the gopis hear this sound, they just lose their mind. They just go crazy. And they just forget everything, they drop everything, and they just immediately run to Krsna. They immediately follow where the sound comes from. But not only the human beings are completely enamored by this sound of Krsna's flute, all living entities. Everything becomes completely topsy-turvy. It is described that when Krsna plays the flute, the moving living entities, like the cows for example, they become like non-moving living entities, because they are so shocked in a positive way. They're stunned. They just can't move anymore. They're not able to move anymore because they're just so fascinated and so much in love with this sound they hear. And it works the other way around also, that non-moving living entities, like for example water—water is not conscious in that sense, it is non-moving living entities, like trees or water. So this water, it becomes so ecstatic from hearing Krsna's sound of the flute that it starts dancing. And the water, which just normally flows down, wherever it goes next, it starts to move up and dance around to please Krsna and to express its ecstasy and its ecstatic mood. And also one of the reasons why the water is becoming so ecstatic, the lake or the river is becoming so ecstatic, because her son, the bamboo, of which Krsna's flute is made, is now in the hand of Krsna, and Krsna is using it to produce this wonderful sound. So they are so proud, "My son, the bamboo, is now producing this wonderful sound." So they are so proud that they have a connection with Krsna, that they can offer something to Krsna, their son, the bamboo stick, which Krsna is using as a flute, that it becomes so ecstatic. So what is going on there in Vrndavana, and what happens when Krsna lifts Govardhana Hill, the way how He reciprocates with all the inhabitants, it is just wonderful. It's going on for seven days and seven nights. And Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura is describing how the gopis, for example, they use this opportunity to exchange loving glances with Krsna, unnoticed by everyone else. Because normally, of course, they are not allowed to do this. They are checked by their elders, they are checked by their husbands or by somebody, they are checked, because this is not a sign of chastity to watch in a loving way at another man, to exchange loving exchanges, side glances with another man you are not married to. But there they can do it, unnoticed by everyone, because they are in the back, they are not so close to Him like the others. They are in the back, and so they are using this opportunity to exchange amorous glances with Krsna. And they are very satisfied, they are very happy that they have this opportunity to do this. So Krsna is lifting Govardhana Hill, yes, to punish Indra, to crash the pride of Indra, but He is also doing it to fulfill the desires of His devotees, to let them have that which they are hankering so much for, and which under normal conditions they cannot get. So we may think, "Oh, this foolish Indra! How he dare to attack the inhabitants of Vrndavana, Krsna's own family, Krsna's own associates." Yes, but he is also an instrument in Krsna's pastimes. He's also helping Krsna to set the scene, to arrange the frame so that He can fulfill the desires of His devotees and exchange loving exchanges with them. So that's, if we look a little deeper into this pastime, why it is enacted, why it is taking place, we can see that actually Krsna is using this to fulfill the desires of the gopis and let them have that which they under normal circumstances could not have. Or just—and this is what I would like to end with—take another example of Krsna punishing Kaliya, the snake in the lake who has poisoned the lake in Vrndavana. So it may seem, and of course that's what it is, Krsna is punishing Kaliya and driving him away, but when the heads of Kaliya come up and try to hurt Krsna, try to attack Krsna, then Krsna is putting His foot on these heads. And while He is doing this, He is dancing.
So the gopis are standing on the shore of the Yamuna, watching this all, thinking, "My God, Krsna is there in great danger, and will this go out nicely? And will He survive?" and all of that. They are in great anxiety. But Krsna is just dancing. And they look at Krsna and think, "Wow, He's not only just a good flute-player, but He's just such a great artist, He's such a good dancer."
And the acaryas explain that there, in this situation, while Krsna was dancing on the head of Kaliya, the desire in the heart of the gopis was born that they want to dance with Krsna at the full moon night. They want to perform the rasa dance. Because they were looking at Krsna and they thought, "Wow, He's not only beautiful and elegantly dressed, but He's dancing so nicely. I would like to dance with Him."
That's a natural reaction. If you go to some party and you see some person there, a man for example, who is dancing very elegantly, very nicely, what do you think if you watch this as a female? "Well, I would like to dance with him. He really knows what he's doing. He's really doing it the right way." So, and this is just what Krsna did. He was dancing so nicely that the gopis were just looking at this and thinking, "Well, let's dance with Him. He's the best dancer I've ever seen." And later on, Krsna fulfilled their desires and they were actually dancing together. So within all of these pastimes, there's always, you could say, one external aspect, one external explanation why Krsna did this. We all know this, paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam, come here to punish the duskrtis, the rascals, the wrongdoers, those who do irreligious things, those who are impious. So that's always going on. He's always teaching arrogant living entities a lesson, to humble them, to teach them humility. But at the same time, at a much deeper level, there is some loving exchange with Krsna and His devotees. And this is of course the main reason why these things are arranged. These other things are only external. They are just there because like I said, Krsna, when He does one thing, He accomplishes so many purposes. So this is just one thing He does, but actually the real reason is a different one. And that's so nice to understand, to look into, to get some realization, get some understanding. And then we see there's so much more than what it seems to be at first sight. So that's what I would like to invite us all, to get absorbed in these pastimes of Krsna and see what we can find there. All the details, all the subtleties that are there. And if we found something, share it with other devotees. "Did you know? Have you heard? I found out something new and I would like to share this with you because I just can't keep it to myself, I'll just go crazy. It's so far out, it's so fantastic, it just hit me like a thunderbolt this morning and I thought, wow, what is Krsna doing when He's doing this? Why is He doing this? And what is behind all this? What is the explanation? What is the relationship? What is the connection? And I have to share this with others. I can't keep this to myself, it's too good news."
So let's carry the good news around to each other and inspire each other to not just talk about these things, but to enter into these pastimes, to become part of them. So that's the idea. That's why we are here. That's why the creation is there. That's how we started. That's what this creation is good for: to hear and talk about Krsna and then leave this material world, no more bhutva bhutva praliyate, no more repetition of birth and death, no more creation, maintenance, annihilation, on and on it goes. Going back to Krsna, dancing with Krsna, playing with Krsna, having some relationship with Krsna, whatever it may be, and be happy and satisfied, be blissful, full of ananda. Hare Krsna. Would anyone like to say anything? Yes.
Q: In two places, I recall you said that the gopis criticized Lord Brahma, the creator of the eyelids, because they are blinking their eyes. Yes, I understand the gopis and Mother Yasoda and Nanda, they are all pure devotees, have spiritual bodies, they are not material bodies, and therefore how can this be?
A: Yes, this is a pastime. Krsna Himself, when He comes to the material world, even though we know He has a spiritual body and even though He is in the material world, He has nothing to do with it, but He is playing the role of a human being. Otherwise why would Indra have gotten this idea, "Why don't these Vrndavana-vasis worship me like every year and perform yajna for me? And they listen to this talkative boy, this Krsna." If Indra would have known who is this Krsna, he would have not done such a foolish thing. But because Krsna pretended in a perfect way, perfect actor, He played this role so perfect of an ordinary human being that Indra went for it. Indra believed it. Indra thought, "This Krsna is just an ordinary child." Even nowadays, you tell people about Krsna, so many people will tell you, "Yeah, Krsna, he was a historical figure, but yeah, he was some king or I don't know, some cowherd or whatever, but he was not God."
So this is going on now and this was going on then. This is always going on. Why? Because Krsna is really into this role, He's really playing it so perfectly, you can't see the difference. So in a similar way, the gopis also. Of course they have transcendental bodies. They are the eternal associates of Krsna. But when they are here with Him in the material world, they all make a big theater, big roadshow. They are pretending to be part of this material world, be limited by all of these things. If you hear about the gopis, the elder gopis, Mother Yasoda and the others, when they come and see that Krsna is there in the coil of Kaliya, they are fainting. They are just falling unconscious on the shore. Or some of them, they want to enter the poisonous water and kill themselves because they just can't tolerate seeing Krsna in this situation. But of course He's Krsna and He will just free Himself and He will punish him and He will drive him away. But if you knew this before, then where is the fun? Where is the pastime? Where is the anxiety? Where is the separation and where is all this rasa? So, yes, and of course they are pure devotees and of course, well, Brahma is also a pure devotee, which he is not always of course, but the one we are talking about who composed Brahma-samhita, he is. And so of course they are pure devotees, they would not criticize another pure devotee. But this is all pastime. They are just expressing their eagerness to see Krsna and they consider this a disturbance. This is unnecessary. This is a disturbance. So it's not that they are criticizing another Vaisnava, another pure devotee. It seems like or it sounds like, but actually what they're saying is, "I just want to see Krsna all the time. I don't even want to not see Him for a split second when I blink my eyes."
Q: By yoga-maya, they are in illusion and think that Krsna is an ordinary boy, yes? They themselves are an ordinary human being. Yes? Yes. And then you showed us when you described that when Brahma dies, everybody is just going into the body of Maha-Visnu.
A: Yeah.
Q: And then they come out in the same form as they were at that time. When you described it like that, then you made a transition, so to say, that Brahma had to create somewhere and then he's creating a demon, he's creating a snake, he's creating humidity, and then this soul comes in and they wake up and like that. But how does that go together with we have Prajapatis? I think that some of the Prajapatis give birth to snakes and suchlike. So how does that go?
A: And that's your business to figure this out, sir! If you want to listen to this, if you want to hear for yourself, maybe I didn't explain it so nicely. Probably I didn't explain it so nicely. Srila Prabhupada, he was interestingly giving a lecture about exactly this verse we spoke this morning, 1974 in Bombay in December. And in this lecture, he's explaining just that.
Q: Okay.
A: And I just found this so interesting because I had never heard that before, and I thought I had to share this with you. Because it makes sense, and it makes sense in the sense that at one point this creation stops. And it's not that on that day every living entity has finished their stay in that particular body. So it has to go on somehow. It has to continue. Just because there's a break now of non-activity and everyone is just kind of in slumber and everyone is just not active, it has to continue. So that's how Srila Prabhupada explains it, and it makes sense to me. How this goes together with the description of how things are coming into existence one after the other, well, something for you to investigate and to research and to figure out. And when you've figured it out, let us know. That's my suggestion. There are so many things which seem to be contradictions, which seem to be, "Well, what is it now? Is it like this or is it like that?" Well, I think we are too limited, we are too tiny to understand this really.
Q: True.
A: Yes. It has too many aspects. Krsna's way of doing things is so mystical that I think we fail, because we would like to press Krsna's activities into our little world, into our little logic, into our little understanding of how things go on. But I think we will fail. I think it's not possible. I think we can just understand this, hear this and appreciate that. And I mean as far as I'm concerned, when Srila Prabhupada explains something, I don't have any reason to doubt this or to say, "Well, that sounds a little strange." It sounds strange, yes, but we have to have If we come to one point in our life where we think, "Well, now I have figured it all out. Now I have understood it all," there's no more need to go to class, there's no more need to read, there's no more need to talk. So it's good there's always something which mystifies us, which we think, "I just can't stop trying to figure this out. I can't sleep at night. I have to figure this out. It drives me crazy! How is this going on? I have heard this and now I have heard this, and this devotee said that and he said this and she said this. Which one is it? How is it?" This is good. It keeps us busy. In America they say it keeps you off the street. You have something to do, you're busy. You don't get some foolish ideas of "Idle mind is the devil's workshop." So it's good we have something to discuss, we have something to talk about, we have something to try to figure out. That's good. That's what we are doing our whole life. We're trying to understand Krsna every day a little more. And we do feel we understand more now than 50 years ago. I hope so, anyway. As for myself, I can make this bold statement: yes, I understand a little bit more about Krsna today than I did 40 years ago. I can say that, and I think we all can. Of course, some of us are not 40, I understand that. But no matter how old we are, some time ago we understood less than today. And that's good and that's how it should be. And if we continue, it will be more. And let us not be misers and keep it to ourselves, but share with others. And I would really like to stop now because it's already ten o'clock!