He adjusts all these different elements, puts them together in a nice way so that there will be nice bodies, adjusts these different elements: earth, water, fire, air, and so on. And then when these bodies are made, then He keeps Himself as the Supersoul within, and without as time. Time is the inexplicable presence of the Supreme Lord by whom everything is moving. Everything is happening in this world because of time as the Supersoul. Purport: Here it is stated that within the heart, the Supreme Personality of Godhead resides as the Supersoul. This situation is also explained in Bhagavad-gita. The Supersoul rests beside the individual soul and acts as a witness. This is also confirmed elsewhere in the Vedic literature. Two birds are sitting on the same tree of the body. One is witnessing, and the other is eating the fruits of the tree. This purusa or paramatma who resides within the body of the individual soul is described in Bhagavad-gita (13.23) as the upadrasta, witness, and the anumanta, sanctioning authority. Just a little example: there is a little push for sense gratification in the form of hearing the news. Sometimes I hear a report like this, and then when this desire comes in my mind, then I think maybe it is nice to listen. But then I understand the Supersoul is actually watching my desire. So everything we are desiring, everything that we are thinking is watched by the Supreme Lord. But He is just witnessing everything like this. So what to speak of if we are doing some sinful activities, then He is also watching. The conditioned soul engages in the happiness and distress of the particular body given him by the arrangement of the external energy of the Supreme Lord. But the supreme living being, or the paramatma, is different from the conditioned soul. He is described in Bhagavad-gita as mahesvara, or the Supreme Lord. He is paramatma, not jivatma. Paramatma means the Supersoul, who is sitting by the side of the conditioned soul just to sanction his activities. The conditioned soul comes to this material world in order to lord it over material nature. Since one cannot do anything without the sanction of the Supreme Lord, He lives with the jiva soul as a witness and sanction-giver. He is also bhokta. He gives maintenance and sustenance to the conditioned soul. Since the living entity is constitutionally a part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the Lord is very affectionate to the living entities. This sentence is very nice. Since the living entity is a part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, therefore the Supreme Lord is very affectionate to the living entities, because they are a part and parcel of Him. The Lord is very affectionate to the living entities. Unfortunately, when the living entity is bewildered or illusioned by the external energy, he becomes forgetful of his eternal relationship with the Lord. But as soon as he becomes aware of his constitutional position, he is liberated. The minute independence of the conditioned soul is exhibited by his marginal position. If he likes, he can forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead and come into the material existence with a false ego to lord it over material nature. But if he likes, he can turn his face to the service of the Lord. The individual living entity is given that independence. His conditional life is ended and his life becomes successful as soon as he turns his face to the Lord. By misusing the independence, he enters into material existence. Yet the Lord is so kind that as Supersoul He always remains with the conditioned soul. The concern of the Lord is neither to enjoy nor to suffer from the material body. He remains with the jiva simply as a sanction-giver and witness, so that the living entity can receive the results of his activities, good or bad. There is this verse in Bhagavad-gita, 18, "I am seated in everyone's heart as the Supersoul, and I am directing the wandering of the living entity as they are seated as on a machine made of material energy."
So He is directing the living entity who is controlled by material nature. And then there is also:
puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi
bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
sad-asad-yoni-janmasu
The living entity in material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of material nature. This is due to his association with that material nature, and therefore he is enjoying good or bad in different species of life. So Krsna is the Supersoul, and He is leading the living entities like this to get his desire fulfilled, as was explained here, as His sanction the activities of the living entity. Outside the body of the conditioned soul, the Supreme Personality of Godhead remains as the time factor. According to the sankhya system of philosophy, there are twenty-five elements. The twenty-four elements already described, plus the time factor, make twenty-five. According to some learned philosophers, the Supersoul is included to make a total of twenty-six elements. So in many places Krsna and Prabhupada, they are saying that knowledge is actually to know the living entity, Krsna, God, and material nature, these three things: the relationship between living entity and God, relationship between the living entity and material nature, and God in relation to the material nature. So the most important... Now we hear in this chapter with Kapiladeva that...
Here we have got all these ingredients in the material world, the creation, all these things. And the most important thing for the living entity is to understand that Krsna is the creator and that He is the owner of everything.
īśāvāsyam idam sarvaṁ
yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat
tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā
mā gṛdhaḥ kasyasvid dhanam
Everything, animate and inanimate, in this world is controlled, owned and controlled by the Supreme Lord. Therefore one should only accept what is set aside as one's quota, not taking anything else, knowing well to whom it all belongs. So Krsna is the creator. As we have heard here, there is this material energy also coming from Him, pradhāna, and then when that is impregnated, then there will be all this prakṛti, the different elements of material nature. And so these are Krsna's energies. When a person creates something, for example, if a person creates a house, of course he has a purpose in building the house. And he wants to live there with his family, so he has a purpose. So in the same way, the Supreme Lord has a purpose in creating this material world. And the thing is that the one who is building the house, if we come back to that simile, one can say that he has a purpose in building this house, but one cannot say, and also we usually say that he is the owner of the house because he built it. That is usually the case. But in one sense, he is not really the owner of the house, because the house consists of different materials like cement, water, iron, glass, wood, and he cannot claim that he produced these things; they come from nature. So therefore he cannot say that he is the owner of the house completely. And that is also why this verse in Īśopaniṣad says that everything is owned and controlled by the Supreme Lord, actually. So what the person who built the house, what he has done is just to rearrange the materials so that it looks like a house. But Krsna is the owner in a complete sense, because not only that He constructs everything through His energies, but He is also the producer of all the elements. Everything comes from Krsna. janmādy asya yataḥ, the Absolute Truth is that from which everything emanates. Everything is coming from Krsna, His expansions, His living entities and the material nature. And this is also said that sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, everything is brahman. That means that everything is God, but one can qualify that, that everything is God, but some things are His energy. And in this world, there is one verse in Viṣṇu Purāṇa explaining that ekadeśa-sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistariṇī yathā, that just like fire is situated in one place, eka-deśa, that means one place, sthitasyāgneḥ, the light of the fire is emanating from this fire everywhere, although the fire is in one place. So in the same way, Krsna is in one place, and He has so many energies emanating from Him. So the living entity and material nature, they are both prakṛti, they are energy. They are actually subordinate to the Supreme Lord. mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram, this material nature is working under My direction. Material nature is inferior to Krsna, working under Him. And the living entities are also inferior to Krsna. But because he is part and parcel of Krsna, he is the taṭasthā-śakti, marginal potency, so he has also some independence. He can go with the material energy and be influenced by the modes of material nature, and he can go with Krsna. So everything, this is also explained in Bhagavad-gītā in the seventh chapter.
etad-yonīni bhūtāni
sarvāṇīty upadhāraya
ahaṁ kṛtsnasya jagataḥ
prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā
All created beings have their source in these two natures. Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution. So this is, after Krsna has explained that the living entity... first of all He says:
bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego, all together these are My eight separated material energies. And then after that:
aparayam itas tv anyāṁ
prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām
jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho
yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat
besides this inferior nature, there is a superior nature, to which all the living entities belong, and they are trying to control and manipulate this lower energy. So the living entity is also spiritual, but he's still energy. And material ingredients are material and lower nature. But everything that we see here in this world, that is a combination of material nature and
The senses are also made of earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, false ego. The senses, body means senses, so somewhere the gross material elements, they can contain, so to say, sight. So this is a little how the living entities and material nature in relation to the Supreme Lord, they are. So one should understand that everything is owned and controlled by the Supreme Lord and know well to whom everything belongs. Even that which is our body, so to say, that is also belonging to the Lord. And then this Supreme Lord is in the heart of the living entity, and He is very kind because although we are turning our back to Him, He's always there next to us and neutrally giving us what we deserve and what we desire—what we desire according to what we deserve. And He is coming Himself—this is described in the fourth chapter of Bhagavad-gita:
yadā yadā hi dharmasya
glānir bhavati bhārata
abhyutthānam adharmasya
tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, at that time I descend Myself, in order to help the devotees and to kill the miscreants as well as to reestablish the principles of religion. And one who understands the transcendental nature of Krsna's appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world. So this is the goal of life: trying to understand Krsna. There is this verse also explaining that those who worship the demigods, they go to the planets of the demigods; those who worship ancestors, go to the ancestors; those who worship ghost spirits, take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me. So this is the goal of a bhakta: to use this body, this human body, to serve Krsna, serve Krsna with the senses, and in this way, also try to understand Krsna when He comes to this material world. And He shows that He is the Supreme Lord of all:
bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
I was just chasing my thought. There was something I wanted to say, it slips away. So it shows how to live in this world, gṛhastha life. When He comes and living in Dvārakā, He married 16,108 wives, and all the wives had one palace. So He is giving the perfect example of gṛhastha, how nicely to take care of the wives, the queens. And He also shows the example of being the supreme enjoyer, actually also in that sense, when He's married to 16,108 wives, but especially in relation to devotees, then He has shown that He's actually the supreme enjoyer. And He actually is the enjoyer. He is the supreme enjoyer, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām. He is the beneficiary of all sacrifices and penances. If we are doing some sacrifice, chanting Hare Krsna, the one who is receiving this sacrifice, so to say, enjoying it, that's Krsna. So we have to understand that Krsna is the enjoyer. And also by hearing about Krsna, Krsna's pastimes, the cowherd boys, the gopis, His parents and other devotees, that is completely purifying our mind from so much dirt and dust. Also, chanting the holy names, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ, and so on. Glory to śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana, which cleanses the heart of all dust accumulated for years, extinguishing the fire of conditional life, and so on. And śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, Krsna as the Supersoul cleanses the heart of the truthful devotee who has developed a taste for hearing His message. If we have a taste for hearing Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam... Actually, I also would like to start a reading group for reading Rāmāyaṇa. It's very...
...nectar in this pastime, having Sita-Rama, Laksmana, Hanuman. And yeah, so Krsna, He appears in so many forms. He appears like Ramacandra, He appears like Varaha, He appears like Nrsimhadeva, and all these. And He appears as Krsna-Balarama. Yeah, so there's so, so much nectar, and we should just utilize our time, utilize our body as much as we can to hear about Krsna and serve Krsna. Okay, so I will stop there. Maybe somebody has some questions?
Q: "Is the purpose of the material world a reformative place where conditioned souls can..."
A: "...rectify."
Q: "Yeah, they can rectify. But some may not rectify, or is everyone going to rectify?"
A: "I cannot say that completely authoritatively, but Bhaktivedanta Prabhu a long, long, long time ago he said that in every creation every living entity has a chance. Krsna arranges so that every living entity can take up Krsna consciousness. Then if he does it or not, that's another thing. But that's what he said at that time. I don't know if he completely followed it. But Krsna also says that those who are very low personalities, He casts them down in the lowest species forever. I think He even says that. But of course, we know this is never forever, but a very, very long time. But we don't have to worry about that because we have made some little advancement, some little advancement by chanting Hare Krsna, following Srila Prabhupada."
Q: "And the spiritual world, the purpose of the spiritual world is that devotees are serving Krsna eternally, happily, fully in bliss. Or is there any like we already understand, okay, this is the purpose of the material world, is there any clear definition what's the purpose of the spiritual world?"
A: "Okay, yeah. The purpose is that Krsna, He says tad-aikṣata bahu syām. He wished to be many in order to enjoy rasa. So that's the purpose."
Q: "In relation to this, I'm somehow confused that did the other Vrndavana pastimes, rāsa-līlā and everything with Mother Yasoda and Nanda, did it happen in the material world, in our world here, or did it happen simultaneously in the spiritual world? How was it?"
A: "Yeah, you see Bhauma-vṛndāvana... Jīva Gosvāmī says that there are four different Vrndavanas. Four. There is Goloka-vṛndāvana, the spiritual world, and then there is Bhauma-vṛndāvana, here on this Earth planet. So first Goloka, and then Bhauma-vṛndāvana. And then also the pure devotee, although he is in New York preaching to drug addicts, he is in Vrndavana, because his consciousness is so pure. And the fourth I don't remember."
Q: "Gokula?"
A: "Gokula? Isn't Gokula the same as Bhauma-vṛndāvana?"
Q: "No, Gokula is..."
A: "There is Goloka-vṛndāvana..."
Q: "Gokula is the same as Bhauma-vṛndāvana."
A: "Yeah, I also think like that. But yeah, so sometimes everyone wonders, was Krsna here in this world, sort of? In one sense, first of all, He doesn't have a material body. And one devotee here was asking, 'How big is Krsna?' I assume that He had the same size as everybody else around. So yeah, although He doesn't have a material body, He sometimes appears to have... when there is what do you say, when these demons, they were throwing on Him their spears, and also Jagannatha Puri... So blood came. But this is just pastime. And also there was blood when Krsna was being the charioteer on the battlefield."
Q: "Did Krsna bleed?"
A: "Yeah, a little bit."
Q: "From arrows?"
A: "From arrows."
Q: "Bhismadeva."
A: "Bhismadeva's arrows."
Q: "Oh, yes."
A: "When he was describing how..."
...when Bhisma wanted that Krsna was taking up His weapon and break His promise. And when that's described, Bhisma's death, and then he described how everything in scripture, Krsna being shot, the hunter who shot Him...
Q: "Are you speaking about the mauṣala-līlā or no?"
A: "But anyway, so, yeah. You had this question, if Vrndavana is in this world, so Bhauma-vrndavana. But the thing is that Vrndavana is there still. But if we go there with material consciousness, or not so developed spiritual consciousness, we are not actually entering that real realm of Vrndavana. So one cannot just buy a ticket and go to Vrndavana. I think... what's his name, who always takes around devotees in Vrndavana to parikrama? Dinabandhu?"
Q: "Yeah, Dinabandhu."
A: "He said that in Vrndavana there is a... you go in this way, and take a turn there, and then you come to a house, and you open a door, and when you go on the other side of that door, that is the old Vrndavana. The old, yeah. That means, I don't know if that means the spiritual Vrndavana, or how Vrndavana was like 100 years ago, I don't know. But anyway, this is a little like this The Chronicles of Narnia... that two children, they were playing in a closet, and then they found a hole there in the back of the closet. For them, went out there, it was a completely new world."
Q: "You're speaking about Narnia?"
A: "Narnia? C. S. Lewis, I don't know... Narnia books?"
Q: "Narnia books."
A: "Yeah, Narnia books."
Q: "But did the gopis and the inhabitants of Vrndavana in those pastimes, do they have a material body?"
A: "No."
Q: "No."
A: "What I understand, they are completely pure. Yeah."
Q: "So one cannot be completely pure in a material body, is it so? Or kind of we are, because the soul is pure, but at the same time it's covered?"
A: "Yeah, I had this question many times. I mean, Prabhupada, he said that he has nothing to do with his body. So the body is material in one sense, for Śrīla Prabhupāda, but at the same time it is completely used in Krsna's service. So there is also this example of... was it Dhruva Maharaja who was stepping on Death personified and went into the airplane of the Visnudutas? And he entered the spiritual world in that material body, so to say. So Krsna can make everything happen. Krsna has inconceivable and unlimited potency. Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya!"
Q: "In Mayapur, Prabhupada said, 'Now I have given you the spiritual world, now you develop it.' Is it the same thing in Mayapur?"
A: "Yeah, Prabhupada said that, 'Now I have given you the spiritual world, Mayapur. Now you develop it.' So that doesn't mean that you are building a spiritual world, but you can unfold or show the spiritual world by developing it, or uncover."
Q: "Uncover."
Q: "And like Prabhupada said, right consciousness is the spiritual world."
A: "Yeah. Yeah."
"So do we have Jaya Prabha's...?"
"Okay."
"Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya! Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam ki jaya!"