A: So here, viśeṣa means variety or variegatedness. And this what is explained here, what Kapiladeva is explaining here, it's all about development. About progress. This is the nature of this world. Everything is developing. Just like Srila Prabhupada explains very nicely in the purport the difference between pradhāna and prakṛti. And he says that pradhāna actually it's identical with prakṛti. The only reason why there are two different names used is because the pradhāna is the stage before it's manifested, before it's developed, and prakṛti is when it is manifested. So it's all mahat-tattva. It's all the total sum of all material elements there are in existence. But sometimes they're manifest and sometimes they are not. Sometimes they're developed and sometimes they are not. Potentially they are there, always, nityam. That means that it's this state when it is not manifested, this is pradhāna. Nothing is there. Nothing exists. I mean it exists, but it is not manifested. We cannot perceive it. We cannot see it with our senses. And when it is manifested, then it is called prakṛti. So it's developed from an unmanifested state into a manifested state. And this, of course, we know, works in both directions. When it's going from the unmanifested to the manifested, it's called creation. Something is created out of something which is already there. It's changing its condition, it's changing its state of existence. And the other way around, when it is wound up again into an unmanifested state, which it's still potentially there but it's not manifested, then it goes the other direction. It goes from prakṛti back to pradhāna. So this is the nature of this world.
bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate
This is going on eternally. Therefore, this word nitya is used. It's eternally going on. The mahat-tattva is eternal, it's eternally existing. The material elements are eternally there, either manifested or unmanifested. And of course, in the pradhāna there is no variegatedness. It's just there. It's just existing. So Srila Prabhupada explains that sometimes some philosophers they say, "Well, this is brahman then." brahman also we know as without variety, without variegatedness. nirviśeṣa. No, no viśeṣa, no variety, no variegatedness. This is brahman, just being. But Prabhupada says no. There is a similarity there in the sense that they both don't have any qualities, they have no variegatedness, but still, pradhāna is material, it refers to the material elements, and brahman is the spiritual substance. So it's different. It's not the same. This is acintya-bhedābheda-tattva. It is the same because it has no variegatedness, but it is not the same because one is spiritual, one is material. And the same development you can see in the material world, that is also there in the spiritual reality. This is very interesting. The way how the material world manifests to perform its function, to provide a playing ground for us, fools, so we can pretend to be Krsna and pretend there is an existence without Krsna, that there is no Krsna, is that it goes from the subtle to the more gross. Krsna is explaining this in the Bhagavad-gītā:
bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
He's explaining these different material elements. And he starts with the most gross and goes to the subtle. But creation takes place the other way around. First, there is ākāśa, first there is space. Earth, water, fire, air, ether. This is there first. And every, every one of these elements has a specific quality. Inherited quality. So, the quality of ether is what?
Q: Sound.
A: Sound. Very good. Yes. Sound is traveling in ether. So, if there is some sound, there is some ether. Otherwise, there could be no sound, because how the sound should be even traveling? So, and if one more quality is added, then it's not only ether anymore. Then something comes to it, something is added to it, which has a one more quality, which also has quality of sound, but it has one more quality. That's why it is something more than ether. Air. Now, what is there in air which ether does not have?
Q: Touch.
A: Touch. Yes, very good. When the wind goes, when the air goes, you can touch it, you can feel it with your skin. You can hear the sound with your ears and you can feel the touch with your skin. So, the specific quality of air is touch. And then one more quality added, then we have fire. So, what is that quality?
Q: Form.
A: Form, yes. Fire has a form. So, we need the eyes to perceive. And this goes all along side-by-side. With the appearance, with the manifestation of the sound, the ears are developed. Because now there is a reason for it. There's something to hear. So, let's have some ears. The wind is there, the air is coming into existing, manifesting, so we need some skin to perceive it. Otherwise, what's the use that it's there if we cannot perceive it? Similarly, if the fire is there, it has a form, we need some eyes to see. And then, the next element is coming, water. Now, what is the quality of water?
Q: Taste.
A: Taste, rasa.
rasam apsu kaunteya
So, now we need some tongue, we need some possibility, facility to taste this taste, to perceive this taste. And then, the last element is coming, from the five gross elements, earth. And it has one more quality.
Q: Smell.
A: Smell, yes. Aroma, odor. So then we need the nose, otherwise we cannot smell it. So, this is how it develops from the subtle to the gross. And then it's complete, then they're all there. The five elements are there and the five senses are there to perceive these. And if it's, if it's time for annihilation, at the time of the universe, it goes the other way around. First, everything is there, and then one, one quality is taken. And then there is no more earth. Because the quality is not there, and now that which distinct, distinguish, and characterizes earth is not there anymore, is not manifested anymore, so there is no more earth. And in this way, it's wound up, less and less and less, and at the end, ether also disappears. And then it is there as pradhāna again. It is in its unmanifested state. Potentially, it is always there, but the circumstances have to be correct for them to manifest. We all know this. Srila Prabhupada gives this wonderful example which is so plastic, which is so easy to understand. Take pieces of wood. We all know that. In wood, in the wood, I mean, the quality in wood is there, fire. Potentially. We don't see it, there's no, we don't see the fire in the wood, but it's there, we know that. And we use that in the winter. So, the circumstances have to change, we have to ignite it with something, with some spark, with some matches or whatever, and if the circumstances are right, if the proper conditions are there, this inherited quality which is there potentially will manifest, the fire will come out and we will see the fire and we'll perceive it. The heat will be there also. So, and this is, this is pradhāna. pradhāna means potentially all the qualities are there, but the circumstances have to change. Krsna has to glance at the pradhāna. He has to glance at the mahat-tattva.
sa aikṣata
He has to look at it, and then it's activated, then it comes into existence. Before this, nothing happens. If Krsna does not look at it, it will just remain in its unmanifested state. Without any qualities, without any variety. And only if it is developed, then there is variegatedness, then there is variety, viśeṣa, then there is qualities. And then it becomes interesting. Before, it's just boring. So, and in the same way how the material world is developed through different stages, so the same is there also in the spiritual reality. First, there is brahman. We know all this famous verse.
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate
First, the first, the lowest platform of realization is pradhāna. Sat. Existence. This is the first. Beyond these material manifestations, there is the spiritual reality. And the first realization one has of the spiritual reality is brahman.
ahaṁ brahmāsmi
I am Brahman. I am not part of the material elements. I am interacting with them as long as I have this material body, but I am not part of this. I am the spirit soul in the body. ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So, this is the realization of the eternality aspect of the Absolute Truth. I am existing and I am not matter, I am spirit. And then if we go further, then paramātma comes. It's there not just me, there is another person also. And we have a, yeah, there's a connection between us. We are not existing separately, independently.
nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām
eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān
There is a relationship. That one, the paramātma, He is taking care of all of us. He is aware of us,
anumantā upadraṣṭā
He is giving the permission for us to do things and He is watching us. Like this famous example from the Upanisads, two birds in a tree, one is eating the fruits, the other one is just watching. So, so this is the paramātma. The paramātma is there everywhere, in every atom and then in the heart of every living entity. So, that is the next platform of realization. brahman, this is the brahmavadis, this is the impersonalist. They are satisfied or, for the time being anyway, they are satisfied with ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I'm Brahman. But if you want to go further, you understand there is not just some substance, there is distinctions within the substance. There is more than one entity, more than one identity. There is me and there is the Supersoul, the paramātma. And if you still, and this is the yogis. They visualize, they meditate, and they visualize the Supersoul in the heart. And if you go further still, I mean, this is the next aspect. This is not just eternality, this is already knowledge. You already have some sat-cit. You have some knowledge. Aha! Yes, I am Brahman, but there's not only me, there is also the paramātma, there's also somebody else there, who I'm part of. And then, but this is, this is still boring. It's better than brahman, of course, but it's not enough, it's not good enough, it's not the end station. It's just a development platform. If we come to the final stage, we understand that we don't just exist eternally, we have a relationship. Then there comes this sac-cid-ānanda, then there comes the ānanda aspect to it. It's added to it. Well, we are not just existing, we have a relationship. He is serving me, I'm serving Him. Wonderful. And then, rasa comes. Only at this point, rasa comes. Not before. Not if we realize that we are eternal, not with if we have some knowledge and understand the soul and the jīvātma, the paramātma. Only when there is relationship and there is action, when there is exchange between the two, then there is ānanda, then we feel satisfied, we feel some bliss. And we know, we all know that. We have all experiences of this. Just like, for example, take a small child. A small child, in the beginning, it is aware that I am existing. And it has some needs also. And because it cannot articulate himself, then the child is just making some sound. "Hey, I'm hungry. Hey, I'm tired. Take care of me. Do something for me." So, this is just being. I am just there. Very unconscious, very undeveloped, very basic. And then in due course of time, if you just watch the child, every day it's becoming more conscious. And after some time, the eyes develop. In the beginning, it just sees some shades and some light and dark, but after some time, the paramātma aspect actually comes. Not just brahman, but the paramātma aspect. Now I can see different people. "Wow, this is my mother. This is my father. This is my grandfather. This is my sister, my brother." Then, then the child is aware, "Aha!" It's not just me, it's not just about me getting fed and sleeping and all of these things. Besides me, there's also other people. So, one is recognizing other persons. One is acknowledging the existence of others. That's the next stage. And later still, that same person, that same child, will actually start to reciprocate with the other persons. And then the ānanda comes. Oh, the heart opens up. When the child develops and starts drawing some pictures, some paintings. Or when a child takes some paper and makes something out of it. And then, is it Christmas, is the birthday of the father or mother, and the child goes to the parent and holds this and gives it to him. The father is just melting, "Oh my God, my child is giving me a present." And then it's just, this is ānanda on the material platform. Because now there's some reciprocation, there's some loving exchange. And it's the same on the spiritual platform. First, we realize we exist. Then we understand there are other persons also. And then we reciprocate with them. "Krsna, You have done so much for me. Thank You so much. I want to show my gratitude, now I want to do something for You. I want to serve You." And this is what Krsna is waiting for. Like an impatient parent who is waiting, "When will the child give me my first present? When will the child acknowledge that I'm existing and I have taken care of this child, and this child is showing his gratefulness? Thank You for taking care of me, changing the diapers and all of that. Thank You. Here is a little something for You."
And of course, the parent doesn't need that thing. It's worthless really. It's just piece of paper or some crazy drawing where you cannot even see what it's supposed to be. It doesn't matter what it is, is it, it is just the devotion. It is just the action, "I want to please you, I want to do something for you." And it's the same thing. In Bhagavad-gītā:
patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam
yo me bhaktyā prayacchati
Who has made these things? Krsna. It all comes from Krsna. We have not created the flower, or the fruit, or the water, or the leaves. But we take these things which are anyway Krsna's, which He has created, and we just offer to Him. Not because He needs these things, but to show our love, to show our devotion. "My dear Krsna, please take this. I want to do something for You. I feel so indebted. You have done so much for me, You're doing for me all the time, now let me do something for You. Let me recognize Your existence and let me just say thank you."
So, and this is what it's all about. This is the goal. This is the final development. First, we develop the consciousness within our material existence. To come to the point to understand, now we understand how this all works. Kapiladeva is explaining so nicely. But now let us go a step further and understand we are not part of it, even though we are existing within it for the time being, but we are not part of it. We are just like an observer. So, this is what human life is all about. To go beyond this step of understanding how the material nature works and understand we are spiritual entities, that there is a different reality beyond matter. Beyond the mahat-tattva, there's a different reality, the spiritual world. So, when as long as somebody is only busy with eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, Prabhupada says this is animal platform. It's just all about me. Only when I start recognizing there are others and I should do something for them, I should not only be selfish and egoistic and just think about myself, I should think and be concerned about the welfare of others, only then, one approaches human platform. There is a very nice verse in the Tenth Canto where Krsna is saying just that. Krsna is describing what does it mean to be a human being. This is a very relevant point because in modern society, people call themselves human beings, but many don't even understand what that means. And how to show that you are human being, yourself and others. So, Krsna says:
etāvaj janma-sāphalyam
dehinām iha dehiṣu
prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā
śreyas-ācaraṇaṁ sadā
It is the duty of every living being to perform welfare activities for the benefit of others, with his life, wealth, intelligence, and words. So, that is the duty of every human being, to perform welfare activity for others. And if you see somebody doing that, then you understand, "Aha! This is a human being." This is a person who has developed his consciousness so far that he has understood he's a human, he knows what his dharma is, he knows what's, what is to do, and he does it. And if one comes to this platform, then one can go further. If we all know this Brahma, Vedānta-sūtra:
athāto brahma-jijñāsā
Vyasadeva says, "Now you are human being, now you have finally understood you're a human being, now you're behaving like a human being, now I have something for you. athāto brahma-jijñāsā. Now ask questions about Brahman, about spiritual reality, about the things beyond matter. Now you can think about Brahman, now you can realize Paramatma, now Bhagavan, Govinda. Now you are have reached the goal, now you're there."
So, this is all about development. This is all what it's about. The whole existence, it's just about development. Go from the most basic and go further. Don't stop until you reach the goal. So, this is what it's all about. This is why, what we are all here for, to understand what to do and to do it. So, in the previous lectures, last weeks, we have talked about what does it mean to be a devotee, or how can you recognize how far you are advanced as a devotee. There's some symptoms, there are some characteristics. So, but if you go one step back, you can understand what does it mean to be human being. Before you want to be a devotee, be a human being. So, if we are not busy performing welfare activities for others, helping others, doing good for others with whatever we have, with our wealth, with our life, with our intelligence, our body, we are not even human beings. And if we are not human beings, there is no question of being a devotee. So, first try, let's try to educate everyone. Let's let them to, to explain to them and show them what it means to be a human being, live like a human being. And then once they have come to this platform of human existence, then we can explain to them the next form of development, spiritual reality. And when we talk about welfare activity, of course, welfare activity means you give some, somebody something to eat, you give somebody place to stay so he doesn't have to freeze outside. This is all welfare activity. We know all this, pious activities to build a hospital, build a school, dig some wells, plant some trees. All, this is all welfare activity. But this is all within material, material realm. But real, real welfare activity is to awaken somebody to his spiritual identity, to remind somebody who we really are. para-upakāra. The supreme welfare activity is to tell somebody who we are. That means we have to understand ourselves first, who we are, and then explain it to others. And then things will change for the better. If you look at modern society, I found this very interesting. They are doing it all backwards. I don't know if you take the trouble and sometimes listen to the speeches of some politicians. But if you do, if you want to waste your time doing that, you will find something very interesting. Nowadays, so many of them are talking about, "It's not about me, it's about us." It's very, very interesting to observe. "Individuality is not important, it's us, we all, humankind."
Wrong direction. Instead of developing individuality, and then having exchange with other individuals, because that's where the ānanda is. Remember? That's where the bliss comes from, where the happiness comes. They tell us, "Just be part of everything. Just be part of the oneness. Just be satisfied to be a human, member of the humankind. It doesn't matter who exactly you are, whether you're male or female, doesn't matter, it's not important. You are part of humankind, that's good enough." You're just Brahman. You don't have to have individuality, personality, just be Brahman. Just be part of the show, just be part of it all. So, they are educating people exactly in the wrong direction. Instead of telling them, "No! That's the beginning stage, yes. We are all one mass, if you want, we are all existing. But then, as development takes place, we understand, well, there's different personalities and they have exchanges, and this is where the ecstasy comes from, this is where the satisfaction comes from." And they are trying to tell us, and they call it education, they are trying to tell us, "No, no, no, don't be so much concerned with yourself, just think about the us, about the big whole, about the everything, about the humankind, and about, you know, we are all big family and this is all just one and doesn't matter, everyone's just throwing in something and..."
So, this is, this is completely hopeless. This modern society is so hopeless. This so-called education is so worthless. It's completely leading people in the wrong direction. So, if we want to see some development, and this is what it's all about, development to go further, to make progress, if we don't explain these things to people, nobody will. Because in order to explain something to somebody, you have to understand it first yourself. If you don't understand these things, how development takes place, then how will you explain it to others? So, we should try to understand these things, and then we can explain it to others. And then things start to make sense, also. If you understand these things, if you have it explained by Krsna or one of his representatives, then you can understand what reality actually means. What the connections are, how this all works, how, what is the relationship between all of these things. So, it's, it's important to understand these things, for our own sake, and also for the sake of explaining it to others. We are an educational movement. This is not just some religious fanaticism or whatever. Some mysticism, some mythology or some fairy tales or some stories. No, this is an educational movement. We want to educate people for their welfare. We want to help these people because they're so ignorant. They're so much in māyā. There is so much in ignorance, they don't understand the most basic, basic things of reality. So, we are an educational movement, we want to give these people knowledge. And you can just take a few, if you want, and this is what I would like to end with. You can just take a few things of, from our modern times to see the ignorance. There is one person, his name is Donald Trump, you may have heard about him. He's the only guy who managed twice to become the American president. And he has one philosophy, he says, "America First." You may have heard that. He's famous for that. He's, he can't stop repeating, repeating it, every opportunity, "America First."
So, this is complete ignorance. It's Krsna first. Not America. Krsna is first. We all know this famous example Prabhupada gave. You can have so many zeros. One zero, ten zeros, hundred zeros, thousand zeros, it's still zero. Without the one, without the first, without the thing in front, the one, Krsna, it's all worthless. So, it's not America first, it's Krsna first. Without Krsna, the rest has no meaning. Just think about that. Or what else, what, what is typical American? "Die broke." You may have heard that. Die broke, never heard? Okay, now we do some education here. In America, the philosophy is buy, and pay later. Or better don't pay at all. That's how America works. They have so much debt, this country, this community called America has so much debts, no matter what they do, they will never be able to pay them back. And they know that, and they don't care, because that's their philosophy, die broke. When you die, you have, be sure that you have some debt, otherwise you made some, did something wrong. This is more than ignorance. We know this is a very bad idea. So very bad idea. Canakya Pandita, he said there are three things you should take care of immediately. Fire, disease, and debt. Why should we never have any debts? Why should we not be indebted to anyone? Because that is reason enough to take birth again. Because we have to repay the debt. If we don't do it in this life, have to do it in the next life. So, do we want to take birth again? Maybe, maybe not. Your choice, you think about it. But if you don't want to take birth again, and that's the recommendation of the śāstra, don't take birth again in this material world, make sure when you die, you die not indebted. You don't own anything to anyone. So, this is more ignorance, die broke. It's a very bad philosophy. It's a philosophy of fools, of ignorant fools. We shouldn't adopt this philosophy. Or what else? There is one saying in America, they say, "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." You may have heard that. Okay. So, what does that mean? If we apply this and try to understand Krsna, we'll fail. We can, we know us, and we know we are corrupt. And so we think, "Well, Krsna is probably like us." So, we shouldn't give too much power to Krsna because power corrupts, we have seen that. Many people have done this and are still doing it. So, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Now, if they hear Krsna is the Absolute Truth, Krsna is absolute, they get scared. Because they think, "My God, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We don't want to be corrupted, we don't want to have anything to do with anyone corrupt, so we have no interest in this Krsna."
This is foolishness because we should have to do something with Krsna, because He is our origin, without having a relationship with Him, we'll not be happy in life. But we don't have to be afraid that Krsna will be corrupt even though He is absolute. He's not like us. He's not material. He has no material contamination. So, this is more ignorance. For the material world, this is a true statement, but not for, it's not very helpful for trying to understand spiritual reality. Or what else? There was one book written in the 1980s, I believe. It was called, "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People." Somebody trying to understand God. Or trying, somebody trying to prove there is no God. That's what he tried, this person tried to do. He said, "Well, look, why is it that bad things happen to good people? That means there is no God. Because God is known, supposed to be just. So, if He allows, if He tolerates that bad things happen to good people, then either He is so old that He is out of control, or else there is no God." That was the, that was the conclusion of this book. Another foolishness, another ignorance. If we are suffering in this life, and we may not have done something wrong, something bad, something impious in this life, what about last life? What, what do we know? Do we remember what we did, all the rest of the things we did last life? So, this is more ignorance. Just because in this life we didn't do anything wrong, doesn't mean we didn't do in last life. So, this is all ignorance, all of these statements, all of these book titles, all of these sayings, all of these slogans, this is all ignorance. It has nothing to do with education, it's just ignorance. Or one last one, and then we can leave it, leave it as at that. Jananesvara Prabhu on Sunday, he was giving the example of Srila Prabhupada, how some students who thought they were very smart, they tried to challenge Prabhupada. And they said, "Swamiji, can God create a stone which is so heavy that He cannot lift it?" And Prabhupada said, "Yes." "Aha! But then He cannot be God, because there is something He cannot do, He cannot lift it." "Yes, He can."
More foolishness. You take material logic, material argument, and you try to understand God. It's not possible. Forget it. You cannot understand God by material reasoning, by arguments and logic. It's not possible. Krsna is transcendental, He's beyond matter. So, this is another foolishness. You think you're so smart, you think you have found an argument to prove that there is no God, or there is something God cannot do. Because we say God is all-powerful, He can do whatever He likes, there's nothing He cannot do. "Ah, but see, I got you. I found something He cannot do." And now we are very proud of ourselves, "Just see, I'm so smart, I proved that there is no God." What are we trying to say? "I am God. I'm more smart than God, why don't you worship me?" That's what it's all about. So, modern society, we could go on and on and on. So many book titles, so many slogans, so many sayings, so much ignorance. Wherever you look, it's just ignorance. There is no education, there is no knowledge. So, unless we educate this world, people will die foolishly, people will die ignorantly, and they will just go on in the cycle of birth and death. bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. Material world will manifest, they will be there, do their thing for some time, material world will be unmanifest, they will go to sleep, they will rest in the mahat-tattva, and then when the next creation comes, they will come back to life and on and on it goes. bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. So, let us be merciful. Let us educate ourselves, and then let us educate the world. Hare Krsna.
Q: He said also, "Can He, can He create the stone that He cannot lift?" And then Prabhupada said, "Yes He can."
A: Yes. Because then He can also do. This is, this is the point, you know. For material logic, it's either-or. But Krsna's reality is, it's "as well as". I can do that, but that I can also do. Materially, it's not logical. You cannot understand this because it doesn't make sense. But material logic is no good to try to understand Krsna. And that's the proof that Krsna is transcendental, beyond matter, beyond our logic, beyond our ability to understand.
Q: But Krsna, He doesn't understand Himself.
A: Yes, but that's something else. That's not comparable with our ignorance in the material world. Krsna doesn't understand Himself, but this is not because He is ignorant like us. This is because He is expanding all the time. Krsna is expanding all the time. And then there is something He has to find out about, and while He is learning more about Himself, He is already expanding more. So, this is why Krsna can never know Himself fully. This is an aspect of His unlimited nature. This is not a fault, this is an ornamentation. This is the, this is the beauty of Krsna. Just see how beautiful Krsna is. He has already done so many things, inconceivable things, and yet He's still doing more. Try to figure this out. Krsna is unlimited. In the positive sense. And it's good because we also, in the same position, we try to understand Krsna, and then we think, "Now I figured it out, now I understood Krsna." No, there's so much more. So much more to understand. And while we are trying to understand, so much more is coming. Unlimited, this is the, this is the meaning of unlimited. It's unlimited. We go to the spiritual world, we don't have to be afraid that there will be boredom at one point. "Oh my God, now I got it all, I know it all, I heard all the stories, I know all the things Krsna did. Now what?"
No, this will never happen. Krsna's always good for a surprise, Krsna's always good for some news. nava-yauvanaṁ, ever-youthful, ever-fresh, ever... Ananta Sesa, with His thousand hoods, He is trying to describe all the pastimes of Krsna since time immemorial, He has not yet come to an end and He never will. So there is no, no worry that we will be bored at one point. That will never happen. Don't worry about that. If that's your only worry, you're doing okay. You don't have any other problems, that's okay.
Q: [And if they don't understand they think it's not existing.]
A: Yes, see, this is what, what we can see in this. For one, we can see that the nature of the soul is to be all-knowing. That's our nature. That's why we are so curious, that's why we want to understand how things work, because it's our nature to understand things, to be full of knowledge. And that we are concluding, because we cannot understand it, therefore, things don't exist, this is a proof of our foolishness and our material limitedness, as long as we identify with matter, because that's the nature of matter. It has a limit. But, and as long as we identify as material entities, that's natural that we will be frustrated because we don't understand something. So, if we add a different dimension, the spiritual dimension, then we can understand things. Then these things make sense to us. Just like this example with the stone. You tell this to some devotee, he will just say, "Oh, Krsna is so wonderful." He will understand immediately, no problem. But a materialist will never understand. Or take, take the example of the, of the cow. The Vedic scriptures says, if you touch the things which animals pass out, you should take a shower, you're contaminated. But cow urine, cow dung is completely pure. A cow is an animal, no?
Q: Yes.
A: Yes. And the cow dung is what? This is the waste product of the cow. But we take this and we bathe Krsna with this. So, how is that? This is a complete contradiction. If you touch stool of an animal, you should take a bath because you're contaminated, but you take the stool of an animal and you bathe Krsna with it. And you clean your house with it, and your cooking utensils.
Q: You eat it, too.
A: It's a complete contradiction. For a materialist, this doesn't make any sense. For a spiritualist, it does, because Krsna has arranged it that way. Or take the conchshell. If you, if you touch the skeleton of a dead animal, you're contaminated, you have to take a shower. But what is the conchshell? It is the bone, skeleton of an animal. We use it to blow and we are announcing, "Now the āratī is coming, Krsna is appearing, the curtain is open, please come and welcome Krsna." So, this is a complete contradiction. Materially, it doesn't make any sense. But spiritually, it does. Yes, sir.
Q: I heard also that in spiritual world, one plus one is one.
A: Yes. It's also completely illogical. Right. Yeah, there are many, many, many examples. And when Krsna is doing these things or saying these things, we can test ourselves whether we are devotees or not. Whether we are spiritualists or materialists. If we are materialists, we immediately will doubt these things. We immediately say, "No, no, no, that is not possible." But if you have faith in Krsna, that Krsna can do anything, anything is possible for Krsna, then all of these things make sense. And more, you think, "Wow, how, how Krsna is so wonderful." He's doing whatever He likes and He doesn't care what other people think about Him. He doesn't care. He is, you know, whole manu-saṁhitā is there, how you should behave, what you should do, what you should not do. You should call every lady mātājī, your mother. And you should only, you know, eka-patnī-vrata, you should only have one wife and be chaste and faithful. And what is Krsna doing? He is in Vrindavan, He's playing His flute and saying to all the married gopis, "Come, dance with me."
This is completely crazy, you know. Materially speaking, this is completely nuts. This is completely destroying the whole human society, all morality, all ethics. Krsna doesn't care. He doesn't care. Call Him debauchee, call Him whatever you want, immoral, He doesn't care. He is beyond this, this doesn't matter, doesn't mean a thing to Him. He's just laughing, "Look at these fools. Trying to understand me, trying to criticize me. Instead, they should come and also dance with me, to have some fun."
So, Krsna doesn't care for these things. And that's Krsna's beauty, Krsna can afford to do this. He has no problem. If we try, we'll get in trouble, but Krsna can. And He does. And that's nice. Hare Krsna.