In the spiritual world there is this service, and there is just the desire. Sometimes they think spiritual life means negating all desire, but desire is a symptom of the soul. The soul will have desires. A material object cannot have desires; there is no person there. We're having this whole new AI thing going on, and it's—
I don't want to be political, but the focus should not be on the tool, the focus should be on how it is utilized, because certainly if you are, I don't know, doing medical research, you can scheme through a lot of information much quicker if you have an AI tool. But we're not asking the AI tool to give us a script for the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class, and we're not expecting the AI to have any desires because there is no person there. So, it's a machine. And Śrīla Prabhupāda speaking—he doesn't speak about AI because it wasn't there, but he speaks of other machines. They may be very impressive, and they may be very useful, but unless you have somebody to turn the key, to turn it on, to program the whole thing, it's not going to happen, because everything starts from a desire. So, that desire to serve Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual world is immediately fulfilled. There used to be, when I was young, we had science fiction from the 50s and the 60s, and then, there wouldn't be any need for food, you could just take a pill, and there wouldn't be a need for money, because there would be automatic, everything would be automatic. The thing is, we don't want automatic, we want to have a scope where we can do our service. But in the spiritual world also, it's not that you snap your fingers and then the bhoga plate is ready to offer to Kṛṣṇa, because you want to cook for Kṛṣṇa, you want to do these things for Kṛṣṇa. And those desires are fulfilled in the company of devotees, just like here. But here it gets a little more complicated because we have the material world and the material nature and material minds and all kinds of things that get in the way a little bit, but if the desire is pure, there is no—nothing to hamper it, really. And when the desire is not—well, actually, the spiritual world fulfills all desires. So, if the desire is to, a little bit avoid the fact that Kṛṣṇa is in the center of everything, the controller, the enjoyer, then that desire is fulfilled too, in the way of the material world. And then we are here, and then Kṛṣṇa's yogamāyā energy is stronger than us because we are just very tiny. And in the spiritual world, the yogamāyā—I mean, here we have mahāmāyā, of course. But it's two sides of the same coin. It's Kṛṣṇa's energy, and it is controlling us in accordance with our desire, but also in accordance with how things function. So, here Devahūti has expressed her strong desires and is anxious to end this foolish illusion. "I am very sick of the disturbance caused by my material senses. Because of this sense disturbance, I have fallen into the abyss of ignorance."
"Your Lordship is my only means of getting out of this darkest region."
I like this—I mean, I like the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is a silly thing to say because the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is obviously wonderful. But we get, we get this absolute truth illuminated from all the different angles, and here we have the situation, because we hear about nowadays, varṇāśrama is a very big topic and it is very—it's a very deep topic, it's a very wide topic. It is something we need to study and understand. But sometimes the simplified version of varṇāśrama says, "Well, go, live in the country, have cows, and keep the women in the kitchen, then we'll have varṇāśrama." Varṇāśrama is a little more sophisticated than that. And here we have the example of Devahūti, and she's the daughter of a great personality in the universe, she's the wife of a great sage, and she's the mother of a great great incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So, is she displaying these things that we hear from certain certain quarters, that women they should, just be somewhere in the kitchen and serving? But what does service mean? Service ultimately means serving Kṛṣṇa. And how can we serve Kṛṣṇa if we don't know how to do it? And how can we serve Kṛṣṇa if we don't take shelter of a spiritual master? And how do we take shelter of a spiritual master, according to Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā? Rendering of service and inquiring into the absolute truth. So, this is for everyone in the material world. Actually, for everyone, but only as human beings are we able to take advantage. There are some—
There are some exceptions. Caitanya Mahāprabhu traveled in the—
Which forest? Jharikhanda forest, and then the tigers and the deers, and he was just chant chant, and they were dancing and chanting. We have the picture in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So, it's sometimes possible, but generally not. Generally, you have to be human beings. The animals, I mean, the whole, the whole universe will take advantage when we serve Kṛṣṇa, when we go out and chant on the streets or in the forest, they will all hear the holy name. When we are engaging... Like the last verse spoke about milk, but from a different perspective. We like to drink milk, but it's quite bothersome because we have to take care of the cows, so that is like the—
one way of looking at the material world. Some things are very useful, but it comes with a great price. But at other points, Śrīla Prabhupāda is stressing milk because without taking the milk, the brain does not develop the finer intelligence to understand spiritual life. And some devotees are vegans, and from their own, I don't know, sense of mercy or whatever, we respect that, but—but like there are so many little points that we can take up, and they can be useful for some people to some extent. But when they overshadow the main problem, and the main solution, and the main focus—that we see Śrīla Prabhupāda always had the main focus—and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is studying, practicing, meditating, and especially in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's line, sharing this—this wonderful reality, this wonderful reality. And here, Devahūti is saying—
She's not saying, "Oh, this wonderful reality of Kṛṣṇa consciousness." She's saying, "This—this other thing that creates the contrast."
We don't want to get stuck in the material world, and it's sometimes—sometimes it's easy to understand that, and sometimes it's a little hard, and sometimes people are saying, "Oh, you people are so morbid, you're just seeing the negative." But, without the negative, we cannot see the positive; without winter, we cannot appreciate summer. I don't know about that! I don't know about that. The spiritual world doesn't have, you don't freeze to death. There is some discussion, maybe there is a little bit of snow. They asked—the devotees asked Śrīla Prabhupāda, "Is there snow in the spiritual world?" And Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "There is nothing unpleasant in the spiritual world." So, whether he meant that the snow in the spiritual world is very nice, or that he just really didn't like snow, and he was not expecting to have snow when he get back, when he came to the spiritual world again, we don't know. There are so many details we don't know. But some things we do know, and those are the things we need to keep in the center, to keep the focus. Because this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a direct branch from Caitanya Mahāprabhu's—
tree. Sometimes described as a tree, and then there are different limbs and branches. But Śrīla Prabhupāda fulfilled that one prophecy that devotees were scratching their heads, "What does it mean, the holy name will be heard in every town and village? It must mean India, right? Who's going to hear the holy name in all these other mleccha places all over the world?" And then Śrīla Prabhupāda just went here, and—
we have all, we have all heard of Śrīla Prabhupāda. You've read Śrīla Prabhupāda's book? About Śrīla Prabhupāda's life? The Līlāmṛta? Yeah, Līlāmṛta. No, not yet. Okay, you have—you have so much wonderful literature ahead of you. But you look at it, and sometimes we're so used to, "Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have him here, we have his books," but he came, he was 69 years old, he got a free ticket on a boat. He had heart attacks on that boat. He landed in—
in New York or Boston? Boston. Boston? Boston? Boston. Yes, harbor, and he had a—he stayed with a family, the son of somebody who he knew at first. He came with a trunk of books, and he had 40 rupees, and in those days you couldn't even exchange it outside of India, and even if you could, 40 rupees is nothing. But Kṛṣṇa helped everything unfold because this was Kṛṣṇa's plan. And that's easy to say from the—from this side where we have the, what do you say, faucet in hand, we know the result. But, when Śrīla Prabhupāda came, he couldn't really know the result as such. Sometimes they say, "A pure devotee knows everything." Well, a pure devotee knows everything that Kṛṣṇa wants him to know. And the pure devotee will speak everything that Kṛṣṇa wants him to speak because there is no barrier, there is no false ego, there is no nothing else. But, they sometimes ask Śrīla Prabhupāda, "How many—I don't know—windows are on the Empire State Building?" And these kind of questions, they are silly, because that's not the point. Pure devotee doesn't have to know, advanced mathematics, things like that. But he has to know Kṛṣṇa's will, and he has to execute Kṛṣṇa's will, and he is connecting us to Kṛṣṇa, like like Devahūti here, she is asking, "I don't know, I only have to—I only know I have to take shelter of you. Who else is going to take me out of this ignorance? Who else is going to enlighten me? Who else is going to connect me to Kṛṣṇa?" And that process is the same today. And sometimes, devotees, we want to be very complicated, or we get stuck in one like detail, or one corner, and then we're arguing this or that, this or that, but this—
Kṛṣṇa says it also in Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge as it was appeared to be lost. Yeah, that's Chapter 4, Transcendental Knowledge. The Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa said, "I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku."
"This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time, the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost."
"That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is told today by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend and can therefore understand the transcendental mystery of this science."
So, so—
this is the reality. We're in the material world. Like, sometimes when things are difficult, and things don't seem to live up to our utopian ideals, we have to remember we're in the material world. And then sometimes when we get too much—
cynical about how everything is bad—like, I hope everybody who moves into Almvik are told these things. And when we come here in the summer and there is a festival and the sun is shining and the devotees are singing and dancing everywhere, we're thinking, "Oh, this is the spiritual world directly, this is a paradise. This is so wonderful, let me stay here." And then we move here, and we live with the devotees, and we realize devotees are very nice, but everyone is not perfect. And when we're in a group, sometimes we are in the kīrtana, but sometimes we do what groups of people do, we kind of become like a little bit of a herd mentality, and sometimes this is good and that is good, and we worry about this, and we worry about that. But that is one thing we have to understand. When we are practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the material world, we can be transcendental. There are devotees who are fully transcendental, and there are moments in every devotee's life when everything is just, together with devotees, we are with Kṛṣṇa and it is very blissful. But then we have the day-to-day, and it will rain, and we will have to pay the bills, and then somebody will not like us, and—
that will be there. But the thing is, that is everywhere in the material world. But here, we have Pañcatattva, we have the association of the devotees, we have the service, and we have the knowledge of the service. So, Kṛṣṇa says that in Bhagavad-gītā, chapter—
So nice, Pañcatattva here. So, so, when we have service, and when we have the association of devotees, and when we have the connection to the paramparā, then sometimes we don't have to focus and worry so much about the—the little things, the little problems. There will be mosquitoes in Almvik also. And there will sometimes be disagreements between persons, and there will sometimes be—because Śrīla Prabhupāda's mission, like, there was some astrologer who said, "This is not absolute knowledge, but devotees like to repeat it because it's very nice sentiment, he will build a house in which the whole world can live." So, we can all have our rooms, we have the pūjārīs, we have the saṅkīrtana devotees, we have the scholars, we have, you know, they have maybe a slightly different focus, but the point is the same point. We are connecting in the paramparā to serve Kṛṣṇa, and to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And therefore, someone has to have knowledge, and someone has to wash the pots. In that sense, it's all one. But because sometimes we are not pure devotees, there will be some disagreement, and there will be some friction. And then, we see here that the—Kṛṣṇa's paramparā was lost, and sometimes we think, "What happened, what happened?" Yeah, but that was one paramparā. There are the four main paramparās are still existing, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu came to unite the four philosophies that I cannot—
I cannot off the top of my head because I—I prepare things, but I never prepare exactly what I will say, I realize. There are these four paramparās, there is the Brahma-sampradāya, the Rudra-sampradāya, there's the Śrī-sampradāya, and the Kumāra-sampradāya. And they kind of have four different focuses and four mottos, and I don't remember them, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu united everything into that acintya-bhedābheda-tattva. Simultaneous oneness and difference. Because we're in the material world, we cannot—we cannot deny that. And then, when we try to explain it from our own limited understanding and knowledge, it gets very confusing. We get the nihilists who just say everything is bad, "Let's just enjoy as much as—annoy as much as—" we can do that too, "Enjoy as much as possible because we're going to die."
And that is a logical conclusion to ignorance, because they don't know. And now we have some knowledge, but in this world at this time, we have this knowledge, it's kind of in the—what do you call, we're moving against the flow of the times. And sometimes when we connect with popular culture, and we connect to people who have been conditioned by modern modern culture and all of that, it's very hard to kind of get through, because some things are like, "No, we cannot follow a book, everyone has to think for themselves." Well, how come all you people that think for yourselves come to the same conclusion? That there is no God, there is no soul, there was just a Big Bang, the evolution. You all, you all figured that out on your own? No, you read someone's book, you didn't even read someone's book, you kind of just, you just steeped in a society that is based on these things, and then there's a little bit of religion, but that's kind of more seen as a hobby. And then, we come here with Kṛṣṇa's knowledge from the Bhagavad-gītā, with Śrīla Prabhupāda's instruction, and, "No, no, actually, that's, we have to change that perspective, that actually Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and everything comes from Him."
And we are tiny little parts of Him. And now, we have ended up in this, like this cloud of the spiritual world. The spiritual world is all effulgent, it's all eternal, it's all sat-cit-ānanda, but there is a little corner that is covered by—by ignorance, because we—we wanted that. So, Kṛṣṇa granted our request, so we're sitting here, and we're talking to people who may not be able to connect. So, the secret weapons we have, the holy name and the prasāda distribution, because that's purely spiritual, but it doesn't go through the—
argumentative faculty. It goes straight to the—to the heart. And then gradually, the soul wakes up a little bit, and I think many in this room had the same experience. We're in this world, we are not dying, we are not starving, but we are somehow just noticing the lack of something meaningful and absolute, and maybe we're praying, or maybe we are just crying. And then somehow or other, Kṛṣṇa, because that's the wonderful thing about Kṛṣṇa, He doesn't give up on us. We may have a desire to turn our back on Him—this is impossible because any direction we turn, it's just Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa directly, indirectly, Kṛṣṇa's energy, Kṛṣṇa's Paramātmā expansion. There is nowhere where there is not Kṛṣṇa. That doesn't exist. But there are places where there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, where there is no awareness of Kṛṣṇa, where there is no connection to Kṛṣṇa. So, that step we have to take. And that step we are able to take, just like Devahūti, by taking shelter of somebody who has that shelter. There was another verse that I felt was relevant here. This is 9, 9, "The Most Confidential Knowledge," 2. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ pavitram idam uttamam, pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam. "This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed." I thought of this because the end sentence of this verse was, "It is serviceable and practical in every way."
We can do it. And we can understand enough. We may not be fully realized from the first moment, but we can have we can have that perspective. We can accept Kṛṣṇa's perspective where things suddenly—suddenly they make sense. The details may still be complicated. Jayesha d. Mahārāja, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The details may be complicated, our—
level of realization may not be complete, but the—the bigger picture is explained so nicely by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, all these different devotees who are showing up in the Bhāgavatam and sharing their situation and their perspective, and Śrīla Prabhupāda who translated it and commented on it in such a way that it's accessible to us. So, we will have small doubts. But the main big doubts goes away the first week, when we get this perspective of how the soul is eternal but we went here because of our own desire. Kṛṣṇa put us, set up this material world in such a way that it functions, but it's not like the spiritual world where every desire is automatically fulfilled. They have this philosophical doubt, it's called the theodicy problem, and I take that up sometimes because I had this funny interaction when I worked in the prison with a young—young man there who we gave a—we made a little program because they asked for it, and then we spoke about karma and reincarnation, and he said, "But that solves the entire theodicy problem! If God is good and God is almighty, why do we suffer?" Because we're stupid! That's not—that's simplification. Because we didn't want a spiritual world where there are no problems, so we came to a place that now is structured in such a way, just like the prison, you know. We have a society, and we can live here and work here and enjoy here to a certain extent. But I don't want to be sociological because there is of course also the lack of responsibility from the—like like a Vedic king would make sure everybody had engagement and were safe, and that is not happening, so maybe some people take to criminality because they really don't see a choice. But for the philosophical example, we can say if in a society you are able to follow the rules and give and take accordance to—to that which is... which you're supposed to do, and you don't, you go to prison. If you're a criminal you go to prison, and then you will still have to work, and you will still have something to eat, but you are so much more limited. You cannot do anything freely, 8:00 they lock the door. I don't know, it was 8:00 in my day, I think. And then you're in your little cell until 8:00 next morning, maybe it was 7:00, I don't remember, but it was a very long time you're in that little cell. And that's like the material world, we're trying to—we're trying to enjoy, but we are limited by the karmic laws, by our material body, by everything. And that's not Kṛṣṇa's fault. This is the facility, "Okay, you want to forget Me? You can do that for a while, it will be a little uncomfortable." So, He gave us the material world, and we can live here, but we can also turn it around by the mercy of—of Kṛṣṇa, of the devotees, and the paramparā, and we have access to—
so wonderful, what Śrīla Prabhupāda gave us. He—you know, he gave us knowledge, he gave us a practice, and he gave us also a structure. Sometimes they are, "Why do we have to be in the temple, why can't we—" I mean, you can do whatever you want, everyone can do whatever they want. But everything becomes so much easier when we are in the association of devotees. Actually, without the association of devotees, it is quite hopeless. So, we are here, and there is great—the prognosis is good, we can take shelter of this whole process. And all our doubts—it's healthy. I thought it was very interesting when when Śrīla Bhakti-vijñāna Bhāratī Mahārāja was here, he was speaking about different doubts, because up to now I've just been hearing doubts. And doubts, when we have doubts, we need to somehow take them up and ventilate them, because if we have a serious philosophical doubt and we just keep it down because we feel silly to speak about it because all the other devotees seem to know these things, and then it festers and it festers, and at one point it may explode. Just before I joined, I don't know who this was because I didn't know him, but some very—very, I joined in the 80s, and then we had Sunday feasts, and somebody was standing at the table and serving, and they told me this one devotee, he came to that table, and the devotee went plop, plop, plop, and he said, "This place, I cannot stand it anymore, they always put the sweet on top of the sabjī. I mean, how can you live like that?" He put his plate down and left, and was never seen again. I'm not—I'm not sure if I got the story exactly correct, but but that is silly, we can all understand that's silly. That's a silly, that's not a reason to give up this opportunity, say once in a lifetime, maybe once in a thousand lifetimes, you know, we have the opportunity, and the little details—
Take up these doubts. Don't leave over something silly like that. But then Śrīla Bhakti-vijñāna Bhāratī Mahārāja was saying, you can put doubts in three categories. You have—you have insignificant doubts. They—you can have that doubt, and you may not understand it, but it's not very important, so you can kind of let it go. And then you have doubts that you cannot understand immediately, like I studied for a while in KTH, the Technical University, and they were giving like lectures and they were saying, "This is your first year. The first year you just learn, and the nature of the inquisitive mind is to say, 'How does this work, how do we put it together, why do we have to learn this?' Don't waste your time on that, because this first year you will not understand it. But the second year, you will be able to apply all the things you learned in the first year." Of course, we're not saying that, you have questions in the first year, ask your questions. But some doubts are just, they will be resolved by time. But philosophical serious doubts, or even sometimes not so serious doubts, and even all the other doubts, to bring them up, bring them up, look for the answers in Śrīla Prabhupāda's books, ask the devotees who have some experience, because the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam philosophy and knowledge is so perfect. We may not be able to understand it all, like before we have some realization, like we read the Fifth Canto, it may not be exactly possible to understand all of those planets and all of that, but we get some perspective, we get some perspective of Kṛṣṇa's creation, why it's here, why it functions the way it does, and—and our position in it, and this wonderful opportunity to just—
get out. And they say, "But isn't that escapism?" Well, if you are in a burning building, and you want to leave, nobody's going to criticize you. But if you're an extra good person, and if you're able to, you bring someone else with you, of course. And if you're able to, you turn the fire out, but we cannot turn the material world, we cannot do that, probably we cannot do that. We're here, we have 10,000 golden years after Caitanya Mahāprabhu, where it will be a golden age, and there will be so much Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even in the middle of this Kali-yuga. So, that's very nice. So, we have this, this is our golden opportunity, and we have this wonderful verse. And then, I—I touched on it a little bit, but I just think it's very nice to see this example of an inquisitive devotee asking deep, meaningful question, existential question, understanding the—the problematic nature of the material world, understanding the need to take shelter for spiritual knowledge with a spiritual master. That role—I shouldn't say it's a role taken up because it's a real person who did it—but the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is mostly, the sages are mostly male. It's because, natural, because the book was written in that tradition. It doesn't mean women have no place in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Some—I mean, we shouldn't need to say that, but we have some some present discussion that kind of make it sound like that. Then we refer them all to Devahūti, and see, what was her priorities in life? It was spiritual realization, taking shelter of a spiritual master. So, that's what we're doing, and we keep reading, and we keep studying, and we keep serving in the company of the devotees. And, that will be all very nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Maybe there will be some comments from the great realized association of devotees, or some questions, or something like that. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Q: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What about that—speaking about doubts—you might try to resolve a doubt, and you might consult devotees, but your answers are not maybe you're not satisfied fully by someone's answer. And how should you do then? A: It also a little bit depends, you can analyze what type of doubt it is, if it's something that's not very important. We had one devotee when he joined, he could not understand why he had to wash his hands all the time, and just wash your hands, Prabhu. And in the end, Mukunda d. asked him, "Why is this so important to you?" And then he realized, "It's not so important. Let's be nice and clean." That is also, to find a spiritual master, when Śrīla Prabhupāda was here, I mean everyone turned to Śrīla Prabhupāda and that was absolute and that was not problematic. But now, I mean, you will have to look for devotees that you can trust, and you will have to also do your own job of studying and purification, because some things—it's really really interesting, some really really basic things people come and they come on a Sunday feast and they ask a question, and they simply cannot hear it, like it says rāja-guhyam, it's a secret. How can it be a secret? It's all very clear. So, some of the responsibility is on us to develop a more deep Kṛṣṇa consciousness where it will be kind of, we will have a different perspective. And some is also—
Like I know when we had another generation of young boys, and I was giving classes, and they had some questions, and then they came to a point where they knew what I knew, so whatever questions they would ask would be very technical in nature, and I wouldn't be able to answer them because I couldn't remember that specific section. So, some of the technical questions you can search in the books, and some of the questions what to do with your life, you'll just have to try and look for a mentor that you can trust. Do you have many such questions, or is this just a preparation for a life ahead? Q: What do you mean? A: Do you have many questions that you cannot find answers to? Q: No, but maybe doubts, to some extent, that sometimes are satisfied to some degree, but they're still, you know, they're not completely uprooted. A: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good question. Any any others suggestions for for that question? I also think like deep prayers and deep absorption in service creates, and and of course chanting, which is also both prayer and service and meditation and everything all rolled in one,
removes a lot of ignorance from from within. But—
I'm trying to think of a doubt that is—that is, how to say, essential, that you're doubting something essential in our philosophy and lifestyle, and I cannot think of anything like that. But maybe that's my limitation. Because we can have practical doubts, like, "Why is this person in charge when he's not—when he's not so good at it?" And then the practical answer to that is, "Why isn't ISKCON perfect?" is because it's full of us! We're all doing our best, and there will be mistakes all over the place. We're in the material world. So, some things, sometimes devotees are sincere and everything, but they're not perfect, so they will make mistakes. And sometimes people come in here and act as devotees, but they're just here to take advantage. Like, we had—and we probably still have in some corners of the world—problems with child abuse, which is terrible, which is a terrible thing. And there is no good answer to why it happened, because it shouldn't happen, but we're in the material world, so some people would come in with that nature. And devotees, especially the first time it came up, we were all shocked, because we would never expect anyone to do something like that. So, we were not prepared to look for the signs, because we would not think something like that would happen. And now we hear it keeps happening in places, and that is terrible. But that is not really a doubt about the function of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is just the fact that we are situated in the material world, and we were not able to be vigilant enough. So, that's one category of doubt that will not be resolved because it's the material world, but how much it will impact our own spiritual faith, that is another thing, how how we can handle it, some things that can't be resolved. Q: How can one separate, how can one make institutional and practical doubts not affect one's faith in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because oftentimes they are very interlinked. A: Yeah. But we have to be a little realistic. I think this discussion is very current, because I see it pop up here and there. Like, we have the soul's connection to Kṛṣṇa, and then we have the brick and mortar temple where the bills have to be paid and somebody has to take care of it, and sometimes human nature is such that we don't have perfect people in control. And sometimes economy will be taken over by people of more of a vaiśya nature, and they will make some enrichment on their own side, and—
and sometimes it will rain, and be cold. So, the thing is—like my son was saying that, I don't know who he was talking to, I think it was, we were in his birthday party with his daughter, and somebody was saying, and he was saying, "No, I don't believe in organized religion." And I didn't want to argue in his birthday party, but the thing is, organized religion will always have these flaws, because material organization comes in, material ambitions comes in, material problems comes in. But the thing is, if Śrīla Prabhupāda hadn't organized, if he had just sat in Vṛndāvana and chanted, where would we have been now? And you go on saṅkīrtana, but someone has to print them and translate them, and there has to be organization. And it would be really good if it was perfect, but it probably isn't going to be perfect, because this is the place where Śrīla Prabhupāda compares it to a hospital, Śrīla Prabhupāda compares it to taking a shower. We come here because we're imperfect, and then we're engaged in service, and then we get purified. And then everything is there, but the fault in all of us who are still doing our purification is also present, and that's not really, you know, it's not a bug, it's a feature. It is the place for us. And then hopefully, there's going to be the—how to say, the balance of the proportions, like the purity and sincerity will be bigger than the negative things. And it could, Śrīla Prabhupāda even said that, ISKCON could fail. BBT will not fail. ISKCON could fail. Caitanya Mahāprabhu could take another route. It is possible. But you know, it's like somebody put the sweet on your sabjī is not a reason to give up, and seeing some of these problems. So, I think—
just being rational about it helps me. And then if we are a little more, how to say, fragile in our spiritual life, we can—and especially because I don't think you are very fragile in your spiritual life. I think you are a very robust devotee, and I think you will do fine. But when we see people who are a little more fragile, maybe we can help them to find a place that is more extra protected, you know, maybe go for pilgrimage for a while, or maybe serve under a certain devotee that is so pure and—and—
how to say, transparent, that you cannot really doubt them. Maybe help other people to find that place where they can grow their strength. But otherwise, we're in the material world, and it's a miracle, like Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "Don't be surprised when they fall down. Be surprised when they stay." And then I'm thinking, "How can you even think like that because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is wonderful?" And then some years go by, and you live in a village, and you live with people, for a while you are like the villain in the story, and nobody likes you,
but does it change anything? Yeah, in the immediate time, it kind of does, but in the long run, would it be better in the material world? Probably not. I don't know if that answers your question, but I'm just trying to give my perspective. Q: Thank you. A: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Q: There's also a distinction between doubt and not understanding. Yeah. You know, sometimes you don't understand things, but Śrīla Prabhupāda said also, "I didn't understand, in the beginning, things, but this doesn't mean that you doubt it, you just keep it for later to understand." It's another perspective. A: Yeah. Because there is that, like, I don't know, in Christianity, they speak about barnatro, like the faith of a child. You grow up and you learn to do evening prayer and you learn to do—I don't know—go to church, and you're fine because you know God is there. But somebody if you have, if you have the kind of mind that will figure things out, that can also be a gift because then when you will be in charge, you can see all these things and you can maybe correct them. But before you're in that position, it can—it can cause like, you know. I read some little Facebook things and, "Harikeśa left, all the disciples were full of doubt and they left too." We didn't really, we didn't all leave. It definitely hampered the spirit, it stopped some of the momentum that was going on, it was problematic in many ways, but like, you know, whatever he learned from Śrīla Prabhupāda and he gave to us, we still knew that. We still knew that. We were still taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa. So, we're all different individuals, but at least it's good to point out that it's healthy to raise doubts, because in many religious traditions, you're really not allowed to, you know, "Don't ask questions, just obey." And that's not what Kṛṣṇa is speaking about. Kṛṣṇa says, "Bring out your doubts because you will learn something." But don't give up the process in the meantime, because then you won't learn anything because you need all that purification also to be able to understand the conclusion of your doubts. But the best is to, if you're able to not have doubts, to just hold on. That is the best. But I mean, it comes in different shapes, like, okay, Kṛṣṇa is good, Śrīla Prabhupāda is good, but coming to this temple with these devotees is really too much! But that's also a doubt. Śrīla Prabhupāda wanted us to be here together. I mean, but we'll figure it out because Kṛṣṇa is there and He wants us to succeed. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Q: I was feeling, I have been struggling a lot with the, with the imperfecness in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in, in ISKCON. But knowing that the imperfecness is also in the material world everywhere, for me it had been so pacifying and making it easier. Here at least we are focused on the same thing and we are focused on love, love of God. What could be better? So even if we as human beings, we might look at more imperfecness in the material world, because most of us are just enthusiasts, we are not professionals in what we are doing here. We are not professional leaders, we are not professional dressers, we are not professional in anything. Because, Śrīla Bhakti-vijñāna Bhāratī Mahārāja has so many wonderful ways to put it so that it's a little bit easier to accept. For example, "We are here in this perfectly imperfect world, and this perfectly imperfect world affects Kṛṣṇa consciousness also, our movement also. There is, it's what is inside here, it's also outside." And like the doubt that would it be better somewhere else? Should I choose some other tradition or should I just, you know, leave the whole idea of God? It wouldn't make anything better. Because we are here with our individual karmas, and whatever, I'm facing whatever problems I'm facing with that devotee would come in that material workplace also, just with other people. And then it's pretty much how much can we trust that Kṛṣṇa is with us all the time. Somehow Śrīla Bhakti-vijñāna Bhāratī Mahārāja has put it so beautifully and now I cannot quote him, but like, there is no doubt that in every single moment Kṛṣṇa is with us, and here at least we can share that love usually, even with the people that are the most difficult for us, they are leaning on the same God. So, it's easier actually sometimes, at least for me, to see Kṛṣṇa in devotees' hearts, even if they are very difficult for me or frightening for me, or like, I just cannot communicate with them, I just cannot be in the same room with them, I'm too afraid, but Kṛṣṇa is with them, and that's kind of, solves quite a lot of the whole thing. A: Yeah. And then, what was the—you said that there were three different kinds of doubts: insignificant—
Q: And things that are resolved by time. A: That's what—and the other one is the doubt that you have to deal with. I don't know, I don't remember the category for that, because that is just the way I normally was thinking about doubts. It was these two other ones that were new to me, the insignificant doubt, and the doubt that is resolved by time, that it's not going to help discussing it, really. Q: You were saying that there's some doubts that we have, we can discuss, some that we can delay, and some that we can downplay. We can just—
A: Oh, yeah, downplay. Q: —we don't really have to worry about. A: Of course he had an alliteration. He always has an alliteration. Yeah, I forgot that, yeah. And also, sometimes this illusion, that devotees are worse, it's because we don't live with the other people. You know, they go to work, and they put on their face as long as they are paid, and then they go home and forget the whole thing. The devotees, we are, it will become more intense because we're always on. We're not just paid to be nice. You know, we're here and we are real, and—and that's kind of healthy too, but—
Yeah. Q: Also difficult. A: Yeah, difficult. I admit that, it's difficult. It's like we are living in our workplace, we are living our life with each other. Q: But also wonderful. A: Yes, but I will say the difficulty on the other side, if you go to work, everyone is nice. You go to the shop, everyone is nice. You go home, and you're alone. You know, that's also not satisfying. So—so, life is difficult and then you die. But—but we have Kṛṣṇa. We have Kṛṣṇa. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. It's very, it's very helpful. Q: And even if we death, we cannot get rid of our devotional association, because we go there together. A: Yes, yes. Q: So, that's one point of—
A: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because, otherwise like you think, "I'm going to be, it's all going to be perfect, I'm going to be there with Kṛṣṇa, and all these annoying people are not going to be there." No, they're all going to be there. They're all going to be there. You just have to grow yourself, and they have to grow, so when we come there, they're not going to be annoying. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Q: I think you can say that we're all in the same boat, then. A: We're all in the same boat. Q: But also, the most wonderful ones are in the same boat, we are actually in the same boat with Śrīla Prabhupāda, so—
A: Yes. And that's one of the original, like how to say, classical examples, that the—I think it's the human body is compared to the boat,
and the ocean of material suffering is doing all the stuff. It's dangerous, it's up and down, it's waves. And then we get the mercy of the spiritual master, that we get on the boat of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then we are kind of safe. The instruction of the spiritual master is the—the helpful winds that bring us forward. But the ocean is still going up and down, so of course, the boat is also rocking. But we're in the boat. We're not in the ocean. So, that's— his—that's—that's—that's one good thing. Okay, I think we're, I'm overstayed my welcome, I think it's over. Thank you all very much for... Somebody was saying something about the class being nice or something, the thing is, those who are hearing are maybe even more important than the person who is speaking, because whatever comes out is because Kṛṣṇa is allowing that desire to hear to be fulfilled. So, thank you all for being here. Hare Kṛṣṇa.