So this is the last śloka in this chapter, and it is Devahuti, the wife of Kardama Muni, how she got many realizations. For she was blessed by having a very elevated husband, very advanced yogi and transcendentalist, a devotee. And because of his mystic powers, he could create a mansion. They lived in this mansion for many, many years and enjoyed life. But now at this point, she realizes that she forgot the most important thing, that this human form of life is meant for liberation, to understand who we actually are. So we are not these material bodies, we are eternal spirit souls. We are not of this world. Seemingly, it seems like we are part of this world, but we are actually something far beyond this world. Prabhupada sometimes gives example: if you have a container of water or oil, and then the moon and stars in the sky in the night, they are reflected in this container. So seemingly the moon is there, the stars are there in this container. But if you tilt the container a little bit, so then the surface, the liquid start to move, so the moon seems to take different shapes, the stars also. And so it seems to be part of this liquid. But we know that actually the real moon, the real stars are in another dimension, far, far away from this container of water and oil. So, but it seems to be part of the material energy, but it's actually not. So in a similar way, when we are now absorbed in, or we are in these material bodies, we become conditioned by these material bodies, and we are identifying ourselves with this body. But it's actually an illusion. So, it's like a dream. When we, we all were sleeping not so long time ago, and so we were absorbed in different dreams, now maybe not so easy to remember, but maybe something we remember. But when we are really into the dream, it becomes like real. We take it seriously. Like I, some time ago, one of my daughters, she had some nightmare dream, and she, in the middle of the night, she was screaming. So I was running into to her room, and then gradually she realized it was a dream, but it was like really scary. She was sweating and the heart was thump, thump, thump, and so on. So, so it's, although it's a dream, we, we can take it very seriously. It becomes like reality. So in a similar way, this life here now, it becomes so real. Here is my house, here is my flat, here is my father, mother, here is my husband, wife, here is my relatives, and here is my job, my career, and I have so many duties and so many things going on in my life, it's so real. So it's real, but it's temporary. At any moment, anything can happen and everything will change. Like in the morning, when we wake up, sometimes we have an alarm clock. So, so we, we are absorbed in the dream, but when the alarm clock start to give its sound, so then maybe we become a little confused for short time, but then we realize, "Oh, okay, it's Saturday, and I should do this and that, and time for taking a shower, or so many different things we are planning for today." So in a similar way, when death is coming, so we are just taken away from all this which is so real in this world, it's like the alarm clock goes off in the morning. So the real life is that we are eternal, full of knowledge, full of bliss. So Prabhupada here speaks about opportunities in the purport. So he says that an intelligent man should utilize good opportunities. And then he speaks about the first opportunity is this human form of life. There is one very beautiful śloka in, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in the Eleventh Canto describing about this rare opportunity to have this human form of life. It's 11.9.29, so I read the translation:
After many, many births one obtains this human form of life, which, though temporary, gives one the opportunity to attain the highest benefit. Therefore, an intelligent person should endeavor for spiritual realization as long as the body is strong and healthy, before death comes.
So, end quote. So that's the first opportunity we have, this human form of life. And the second opportunity Prabhupada speaks about is to take birth in a family where there is a cultivation of spiritual knowledge. And this is very rarely obtained in this material world. Very, very rarely obtained. We have a beautiful baby here today, and it's very auspicious. Her parents bring her here this Saturday morning, come to the temple. She hears the holy name, the chanting, āratika is going on, and she's very fortunate. So here it's described that the second opportunity is to take birth in a family where there is cultivation of spiritual knowledge. Hearing the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most auspicious in the morning. This is rarely obtained, Prabhupada says. Also in the Bhagavad-gītā, it's describing about how it's very rarely obtained to get such, obtain such a birth. In the Sixth Chapter, 6.42, Krsna says:
Or he takes his birth in a family of transcendentalists who are surely great in wisdom. Certainly such a birth is rare in this world.
So to find someone who's actually serious about spiritual life, it's very, very rare. There might be some interest, some attraction, some desire to also make progress in spiritual life, but to find someone who is sincere and advanced, that's very rare. So Krsna says, "Such a birth is rare in this world." And in the next śloka, I also read that, it's text 43 in Chapter Six, Bhagavad-gītā. Krsna says:
On taking such a birth, he revives the divine consciousness of his previous life, and he again tries to make further progress in order to achieve complete success.
So it's there from previous life, this attraction for spiritual knowledge and taking up the process for making spiritual progress and purify one's consciousness. I read next also, 6.44. Krsna says:
By virtue of the divine consciousness of his previous life, he automatically becomes attracted to the yogic principles—even without seeking them. Such an inquisitive transcendentalist stands always above the ritualistic principles of the scriptures.
So, so it's such... Devahuti, she is realizing she had this great opportunity to have association of her saintly husband. So, so Devahuti is very conscious, aware of this, but now she is lamenting. So first of all, she was born as a daughter of an emperor, very elevated birth from the material point of view. And number two, she was sufficiently educated and she was cultured lady. And three, she got Kardama Muni, saintly man, as her husband. But she realized, "If this is not leading to liberation, I'm cheated by māyā." So māyā is cheating everyone. So how, how does māyā cheat us? Can you give an example of māyā is cheating us in daily life?
Q: Work. Yeah, work. You want more money, so you work. And you work, and you work, and you work. And you're so busy and you forget everything else.
A: Yeah. But what does it lead to? Is it not, if you, if you are successful in earning this money...
Q: Well, you think that you have a lot of money and then one day you don't have to work. That keeps you working.
A: Yeah.
Q: Yeah.
A: Yeah, but with the money, is to make us happy.
Q: Yes.
A: And you don't have to, one day you can just lean back and you don't have to do anything and just enjoy.
Q: Yeah.
A: And in what way is it māyā?
Q: Yeah, is that... I mean, of course work is good, but the, the carrot is that we are working not for ultimate liberation but we are working for something temporary.
A: Yeah.
Q: But it is temporary.
A: Yeah.
Q: So that's the illusion.
A: Yeah, that what we can get from money is of course satisfaction, but it's temporary, temporary satisfaction, temporary happiness. So it doesn't have any real substance. And that means we become ultimately disappointed. There will be some emptiness or frustration, and we, we will actually feel cheated because it was promising that it would give us happiness. I read one article in one Swedish paper about those personalities who have won the lottery or different, what do you say, different ways to win money, had got these largest sums of money in the history. And they had made some research what happened with them. And it was interesting article. So it showed that many of them actually, after experienced many things with this money, they, they told that they wished it never had happened.
Q: What?
A: They wished it never had happened that they win this money. Because it gave them so much anxiety and problem and disturbances in life. So, so that is interesting. It shows something. So māyā is cheating us, cheating everyone. Prabhupada says people do not know what they are doing when they worship the material energy in the form of the goddess Kali or Durga for material boons. Like, Prabhupada says, one is approaching Durga: "Mother, give me great riches, give me good wife, give me fame, give me victory," and so on. So, like when you become famous, it's, it's very attractive, but also when you become famous, it's naturally pressure on you to maintain this fame. And people also become envious of those who are famous, and they are speaking maybe behind their back many things, and they try to diminish your position or drag you down from your position. And that's very, very painful. If you are famous, if you are successful in life, and you cannot maintain that position, it's very, very painful. There is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He said to Sanatana Gosvami—this is from Caitanya-caritāmṛta—about cheating oneself and cheating others, it's called kaitava. So Lord Caitanya said, quote:
Associating with those who cheat is called duṣṣaṅga.
And that means bad association, duṣṣaṅga.
Those who desire things other than Krsna's service are also called duṣṣaṅga, bad association.
So we should seek good association. We should seek good association. So there is one famous śloka:
sādhu-saṅga, sādhu-saṅga, sarva-śāstra-kahe
lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya
It's recommended one should associate with saintly persons, with devotees. And even if one associate with saintly persons for a short time, lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya, one can attain perfection. Even if it's very short. It's so powerful, this association with saintly persons. So somehow or other, one should try to get that association. And by coming in contact with Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, with Srila Prabhupada's purports, actually we come in direct association also with Srila Prabhupada, who is the most saintly person. I was hearing from Bhagavat Prabhu, one of Srila Prabhupada's disciples. Once he was with Tamal Krishna Maharaj and, and Prabhupada, and Prabhupada, he asked them, he was asking for some verse, some śloka from the scriptures, and they couldn't find it. So then Prabhupada told them, Bhagavat Prabhu and Tamal Krishna Maharaj: "I see you don't read my books." And, and then Prabhupada said: "Every day you should read my books. You should know my books very, very carefully." And he said like: "A lawyer knows the law books, you should know my books, every śloka, every page," he said. And then he said that: "Even I read my books. Every day I read my books." And then he asked them: "Do you know why I read my books?" And then he said that: "Because I didn't write these books." So Krsna personally comes every night when I'm dictating and personally dictates these books, so because of that, I learn many things when I read my books. So this association is such an opportunity, just picking up Srila Prabhupada's books, picking up Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and just reading, not only for learning, but to get the association, direct association of Prabhupada. Prabhupada is not different from his books like that. Do you have any maybe questions, some reflection, some comments on what we have been speaking about?
Q: Sometimes we know we are in māyā, and we know we are doing let's say māyā thing, whatever it can be. But, but still despite we know, we still continuing, not to turn our face to Krsna, so how to deal with such a situation?
A: Yeah, it's, sometimes when māyā is so powerful, so we become like paralyzed. And Krsna of course says in Bhagavad-gītā that:
daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te
That is, divine energy of Mine, mama māyā, it's My energy, My illusory energy, duratyayā, it's very, very difficult to overcome. It's actually impossible to overcome the illusory energy, māyā, because it's Krsna's energy. But then Krsna says: mām eva ye prapadyante, but one who surrenders unto Me, māyām etāṁ taranti te, can easily overcome this illusory energy. So that's the opportunity we have to actually at every situation in our life in a practical way, we have different choices. We have, should we choose Krsna consciousness, to please the Lord, please Srila Prabhupada, please the devotees, or are we acting for our own selfish interest, selfish motives for sense gratification? But that's the answer Krsna gives Himself, that if we just take shelter of the Lord. And in a practical way, the chanting of the holy name is so powerful. If we just, when we become overwhelmed by māyā, when we are influenced by māyā, we become bewildered by māyā, if we simply, sincerely chant: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare / Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's so powerful, so it will change our consciousness, and change our desires. Everything is built on desires. So we have a desire to be in māyā, to enjoy māyā. And then we are in māyā. But by chanting the holy name, just trying to take shelter of the holy name, our desires are becoming purified. So we start to desire the right things, and we desire to get out of māyā, we become sincere in our endeavors to get out of māyā. And in this way, that's the opportunity. Prabhupada said we should always chant Hare Krsna. He said that we should chant Hare Krsna 24 hours a day. We should think about Krsna 24 hours a day. And how is that practically possible? Well, it's when we get a taste for chanting Hare Krsna, then we cannot stop. So Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He, He gives the right understanding how we can always chant the holy name. He said:
tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
So He is describing we should chant the holy name in a humble state of mind, we should have the right attitude, right consciousness, in humble state of mind, feeling ourselves lower than a straw in the street. One should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all desire for prestige, and ready to offer all respects to others. So in that state of mind, we can kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ, we can always chant the holy name of the Lord. And then, when we always chant, we will always be protected from the illusory energy of māyā. So what do you think about that?
Q: Very nice. (laughs)
A: (laughs)
Q: So how, how can we become properly afraid of māyā and stay afraid of māyā? If we become so complacent and relaxed, is it the same question as that? How to want, I mean you said we should be afraid of māyā.
A: Yeah, we should be very afraid of māyā. Prabhupada once said that the difference between me and you is that I'm afraid of māyā, you are not. So because it's, as we said, it's so powerful. And one can become bewildered at any time. So māyā means that which is not. One don't see things as they are. And so, and then that means one doesn't see how dangerous, dangerous it is. But immediately, when we are taking shelter of the holy name, taking shelter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the association of sincere devotees, so then we, we start to see things as they are. And when we start to see things as they are, we see how māyā is cheating, cheating us and cheating, like Prabhupada said here in the purport today, they are cheating everyone in this world. And being cheated, that means suffering. Suffering like anything. That is what the consequences of being in māyā, suffering. So when you see that because hearing the transcendental sound vibrations, then you become afraid, "Oh, I don't want to experience this suffering condition." And so one becomes determined to keep māyā in this, on, on distance like that. But it's all coming from what Prabhupada recommended, hearing and chanting in association of devotees. It's so powerful. And so then we, we can get the, this healthy fear. Healthy fear of the illusory energy. And becoming very alert, very strict. Krsna consciousness is a jolly process also, but it's also something very serious because illusory energy is so powerful, and Prabhupada says we declaring war against illusory energy when we take up Krsna consciousness. And if you are in a war situation, then you have to be very, very alert, very, very conscious. The enemy can be anywhere. So every move is like very, very, you have to be very, very conscious. So, so the enemy now is māyā. And we have to be very, very conscious where māyā is appearing. And if we are alert like that, then life becomes much more interesting. If we are playing around a little with māyā, when we are not so strict, we are a little loose, then we are, actually we become morose. We become, we go down. Life becomes a struggle. That is our experience. But when you are down there, you have to really endeavor to get up, and that's painful, it seems like more easy to relax and have a little sense gratification and, and then I get some relief from māyā's punching me. But we know it's, it doesn't work. One becomes more entangled, and one becomes more, experience more bewilderment and suffering. So we should be afraid, and by discussing Bhāgavatam, hearing Bhāgavatam in the association of devotees, we, we can get intelligence to understand we have to be very, very alert, very, very conscious, Krsna conscious. And in this way, we can keep māyā on distance. Then it becomes easy. But when we play around with māyā, then it's, it becomes very difficult, and we are not happy.
Q: I have related, I have related questions to this. In relation to this both questions like māyā, māyā. Like Prabhupada once said like when disciple asked question like, "Prabhupada, sometime I am in māyā." Prabhupada said, "You are always in māyā. Sometime you are in Krsna consciousness." (laughs) So that was the answer. And then this, this verse we quoted:
daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
So what does it mean: mām eva ye prapadyante? eva means "only to Me". And in relation to, is it possible that somebody is doing practice devotional, devotional service, but still he is in the māyā?
A: If you are engaged, absorbed in devotional service and at the same time be in, in māyā? Well, it's...
Q: Can it be possible?
A: You can do something mechanically in devotional service. You do your duty, but your mind is somewhere else. Maybe you think about sense gratification. So you are in a practical way engaged, washing the dishes or even dressing the Deities, but you are not Krsna conscious, you are thinking about sense gratification. So in this way, Krsna is not so pleased.
Q: So how would we differentiate that I'm doing this for sense gratification or this is doing for Krsna's pleasure?
A: Well, it's, it's explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it gives a definition about the difference between love and lust. So it is said that:
kāma-prema-doṅhāra bhibinna lakṣaṇa
lauha āra hema yaiche svarūpe bilaṣaṇa
That love and lust have different characteristics, just as iron and gold have different natures. So then it's explained that the desire to please Krsna's senses:
kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā
that is love, that's prema. And ātmendriya-prīti-icchā the desire to please one's own senses, that is lust.
Q: So how would we discriminate this is for my senses, this is for Krsna's? (laughs)
A: Well, it's, it's not so difficult. You have to be honest and see what, where, where is my consciousness, or where are my thoughts and, and so we should try sincerely to endeavor for just please Krsna, and please Srila Prabhupada. Like, for instance, if Srila Prabhupada now walked in here into the temple room, and we, we would just, I guess, our reaction would be we just stand up immediately, offer daṇḍavats, and we, we want to serve him, please him. What...
Q: So it means pleasing Srila Prabhupada or pleasing Guru. When they are satisfied, then our, whatever service is satisfied, success.
A: Yes, that's, that's the system. If you please Prabhupada, then you please Krsna.
Q: Prabhupada we can't see now. Or at least those who are, at least my dīkṣā-guru if dīkṣā-guru is or whoever I have taken shelter. If that person is pleased, then my activities are...
A: But Prabhupada... we should understand Prabhupada is present. He's very much present. He's present here as a mūrti, and if we come here and we sincerely pray to Prabhupada, when we offer obeisances to Prabhupada we do it with a sincere feeling...
Q: But that is, that is ritvik. They say only Prabhupada, after Prabhupada no one. That is Ritvik.
A: But Prabhupada is our founder-ācārya, and we can develop a personal relationship to him, and that, then he's very much present. But we also need guidance, naturally, from devotees who are here present now. And that was also Prabhupada's desire, that we should be, we should have the system of initiating gurus who are representing Prabhupada.
Q: Yeah, we should build that. If somebody say only Prabhupada, then it is very dangerous.
A: Yes. So it means whatever activity I am doing in Krsna consciousness, if it's pleasing to my Guru, who is present now, or his representative, if they are pleased, then my activities... If I am doing for my, or I like to do this, I like to do this, that is not necessarily pleasing Krsna. That is not mām eva ye prapadyante. Thank you. So it's nine o'clock. Yes. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam ki... Audience: jaya!
A: Srila Prabhupada ki... Audience: jaya!
A: Gaura-bhakta-vṛnda ki... Audience: jaya!