We can learn from this verse. Maitreya Muni is speaking to Vidura, right? Yes, it's in this conversation. Third Canto is the conversation between Maitreya and Vidura. And now he is retelling the conversation between Devahūti and her son, Kapiladeva. So, here he is speaking about how Kapiladeva is very happy because he has gotten a nice question from his mother. Spiritual, now it's of course this is the Supreme Lord Himself, but in general, spiritual people are very happy when someone puts a good question so that they have the opportunity to speak about transcendental knowledge. Because that's very rare in this world, that someone is interested to know about something else than eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. If someone puts such a question to a sādhu, then that kind of opens the door for that person to speak about transcendental knowledge. And this is the life and soul of spiritual people, to actually be able to share spiritual knowledge with the world, with other people. Because spiritual people, they only live in this world for the benefit of other people. They have no interest for themselves. Śrīla Prabhupāda had no interest to enjoy this world, not the slightest, but his only reason for existing was to uplift and help the suffering, conditioned souls in this world. So without questions, there is no use in speaking. If someone is not curious or interested, then the sādhu has no business there. So there has to be some interest, and then the sādhu will speak. So here Devahūti, she has been putting some questions. Let's see, we can maybe just read some verses, what she actually said. And she starts in verse number seven. So she says like this:
"I am very sick of the disturbance caused by my material senses, for because of this sense disturbance, my Lord, I have fallen into the abyss of ignorance. Your Lordship is my only means of getting out of this darkest region of ignorance because You are my transcendental eye, which by Your mercy only, I have attained after many, many births. You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the origin and Supreme Lord of all living entities. You have arisen to disseminate the rays of the sun in order to dissipate the darkness of the ignorance of the universe. Now be pleased, my Lord, to dispel my great delusion. Due to my feeling of false ego, I have been engaged in Your māyā and have identified myself with the body and consequent bodily relations."
And here comes her question:
"I have taken shelter of Your lotus feet because You are the only person of whom to take shelter. You are the axe which can cut the tree of material existence. I therefore offer my obeisances unto You, who are the greatest of all transcendentalists, and I inquire from You as to the relationship between man and woman and between spirit and matter."
So she wants to know about prakṛti and puruṣa and spirit and matter. So she starts off by saying that she is very sick and tired of this material existence. So this is the beginning, as we know. Unless one realizes that one is actually not very happy in this material world and that there is a lot of disturbance, then there is no question of spiritual life. So first of all, we have to realize that we are suffering. And then we can begin putting questions about spiritual life, and we can start our spiritual life. In the Eleventh Canto, there is a verse, a very famous verse: tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, which says that if one wants relief in this world, one has to approach a spiritual master. And in Nectar of Devotion, there is a translation of this verse. Prabhupāda writes like this: "My dear king, please know for certain that in the material world there is no happiness. It's simply a mistake to think that there is happiness here because this place is full of nothing but miserable conditions. Therefore, any person who seriously desires to achieve real happiness must seek out a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation."
So before approaching a spiritual master and inquiring from him, one has to realize that this material world is not a very nice place. It's not a place for a gentleman, like Prabhupāda said. So this is the basic qualification for anybody to take up spiritual life: to understand that we are suffering in this material world and that we need help, we need to inquire. So this is the beginning of human life, as we know from Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, when we have received this human form, we have the opportunity to put questions about existence, who we are, and why we're here. So this is the real purpose of inquiring. Prabhupāda writes in one purport in the First Canto that everyone in this world is inquiring. There is nobody who is not putting questions. Constantly, everyone in this material world is inquiring. But basically, everyone is inquiring about how to enjoy this world. Where is money, where is sense enjoyment, where is a nice place to stay, where is a nice person to get together with and have a family, and so on. These are the questions that most people ask, and consequently, that's the answer they receive as well. But this is actually animal life. Prabhupāda says even the animals are always, like what the birds are chirping, that means they're asking, where is a person to mate with, or a bird, I mean, bird person, and like that. So this is going on all the time. But human existence is meant for a completely different kind of questioning, and that is to understand why we're here, who we are, and what is the purpose of everything. So Devahūti, she was a very intelligent lady, and she had such a wonderful life, actually, from the material point of view. She married a very great devotee, a great transcendentalist, Kardama Muni, and they had a perfect family life together. When she wanted to have children, Kardama Muni created this wonderful palace for her with everything she could ever desire, and it was even moving, it was flying around in the sky, and they were traveling together to all the beautiful places in the universe, heavenly gardens and heavenly planets. And it was such an enjoyable, luxurious life. And finally, they had nine beautiful daughters, and then, in the end, they also had the son who was an incarnation of the Supreme Lord. So, who could ask for anything more than that from the material point of view? It was just an amazing family life they had. But in the end, Kardama Muni left. That was his promise from the very beginning, that once you have children, then I will again renounce. And then Devahūti, she just realized that all this was just completely external, insignificant. She just said, we just wasted so many years. I didn't actually take advantage of being married to you, my dear husband, who are such a great sage and great devotee. But then it was too late, so to say. Kardama Muni left, but then she had this opportunity to have Kṛṣṇa as her son. So then her confusion and her sorrow actually made her turn to her son and ask him to enlighten her and give her that transcendental knowledge which could pacify her sorrow. So she's asking Kapiladeva to cut her attachment to this material world by explaining to her the real knowledge of matter and spirit, and prakṛti and puruṣa. So spiritual knowledge is explained to be like an axe. Because as long as we are attached to this material world, we cannot really understand spiritual knowledge. This attachment kind of covers our intelligence. And spiritual life means we have to gradually cut off all these material attachments with the weapon of transcendental knowledge, like Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna in Bhagavad-gītā, "Armed with yoga..." Therefore, how is this verse? I can find it here. End of fourth chapter says: "Therefore, the doubts which have arisen in your heart out of ignorance should be slashed by the weapon of knowledge. Armed with yoga, O Bhārata, stand and fight."
So doubts and attachments, they have to be cut down with the weapon of knowledge. Otherwise, we will not be able to be determined in spiritual life. So this is very important, to become determined, like Kṛṣṇa also says: vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. "Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one."
So this resolute purpose, or this vyavasāyātmikā intelligence, it comes when we have cut out all the doubts that we have about this process, about God, about all these things. And when we also gradually cut away our material attachments to this world, then we become very resolute in purpose and very determined. Yes, and this is needed on the spiritual path. Otherwise, we will not go forward very nicely. So, here it's also said, Prabhupāda says in the purport: asat-grahaḥ. We are actually, we are sat, but we are put in this temporary world, which is called asat. And this is a completely incompatible situation for the spirit soul. Because as Bhagavad-gītā also tells us, how is this, someone knows this verse about asat and sat in the second chapter? Ah, here it is: nāsato vidyate bhāvo nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ ubhayor api dṛṣṭo 'ntas tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ. Translation: "Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the non-existent, the material body, there is no endurance, and of the eternal, the soul, there is no change. This the seers have concluded by studying the nature of both." So asat refers to that which is temporary and has no endurance, and sat refers to the soul, which is unchanging and never dies. But in this world, we have become asat-grahān. Anyone knows where that expression comes from? It's a famous verse in the Bhāgavatam. asat-grahāt comes from... there's a famous verse, that's why he gets this expression from, it's from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, Fifth Chapter, about Prahlāda. It's this famous verse which goes like this: tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. Prahlāda said: "O best of the asuras, king of the demons, as far as I have learned from my spiritual master, any person who has accepted the temporary body and temporary household life is certainly embarrassed by anxiety because of having fallen in a dark well where there is no water but only suffering. One should give up this position and go to the forest. More clearly, one should go to Vṛndāvana where only Kṛṣṇa consciousness is prevalent, and should thus take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
So asad-grahāt, in the word-for-word translation, it says: "because of accepting the temporary body or bodily relations as real, thinking I am this body, and everything belonging to this body is mine." So asat is temporary and grahāt means to hold on to, or grasp. So this is our position in this material world, that we are holding on to this temporary identity and temporary illusion of whatever we are in this world. And therefore we are suffering. Actually, we are not a part of this material world, we have nothing to do with this material world. We are asaṅgo hy ayaṁ puruṣaḥ. We're eternally liberated, we're separate from this body. But what holds us together, what makes us stay in this world is this false conception that we are these bodies. Ahaṅkāra. Ahaṁ means I, and kāra means doer. We think we are the doer, and therefore we are continuing to rotate in this saṁsāra. Although we don't have to, and we are separate from all this material entanglement. Ahaṅkāra is that knot which ties together spirit and matter. Actually, they are completely separate, but we are tied together through this false conception, which is called ahaṅkāra. And therefore we suffer. Like it's given the example: if you have a car, and you have paid a lot of money and you're driving this beautiful car, you're very attached to it. And if someone drives into your car, it's like someone is driving into you: "Oh, why did you drive into me?" sometimes persons say. But actually, it's only the car, it's not you. But because you are so attached to this car, then you experience very great suffering when your car is smashed. So we have to get rid of this false attachment, this false conception that we are these material bodies. And what is it said in Bhagavad-gītā: prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate. The bewildered spirit soul thinks himself to be the doer of activities which are in actuality carried out by the modes of material nature. ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, we become foolish, vimūḍha, because of this false conception, that we think we are something that we are not. And this Sāṅkhya yoga, which Lord Kapiladeva is going to explain about in this chapter, is going to help us to cut this false conception of material existence and instead give us the real conception of who we are as eternal servants of Kṛṣṇa. And as Prabhupāda says: as soon as one is conscious of this fact and takes... Actually, the spirit soul is not asat. As soon as one is conscious of this fact and takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he becomes sat. satāṁ gatiḥ, the path of the eternal, is very interesting to persons who are after liberation. And His Lordship Kapila began to speak about that path. So this art of putting questions is actually very important to learn. Kapiladeva is so pleased that his mother has put this nice question. And it's not so easy always to find the right questions to ask. That's actually an art, to ask good questions. Voltaire has said: "Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers."
And another famous person says: "Successful people ask better questions, and as a result, they get better answers."
So this is an art. Actually, Socrates, his way of teaching, the Socratic method, is famous. It's that the knowledge comes when there is a nice dialogue between the teacher and the students. The student has to always put more and more questions so that the teacher can understand that, yes, they're really grasping what I am teaching them, and they're eager to know more, and then he becomes inspired to speak. So this is how spiritual knowledge comes into this world, as we know. Bhagavad-gītā, it's questions and answers, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the same. And the whole Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is said to have been spoken, it actually came into existence because of these wonderful questions that Mahārāja Parīkṣit asked: what is the ultimate goal of life for everyone, and especially for a person who is about to die? Because he asked this wonderful question, Śukadeva Gosvāmī became inspired and spoke, basically, the whole Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is based on this question. Of course, there were so many other questions also coming along the way, so to say. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was completely absorbed and he was all the time probing Śukadeva Gosvāmī to go deeper and deeper by his intelligent questions. So we should try to learn this art of asking intelligent questions and thus opening the doors for the spiritual masters and spiritually elevated people to speak. That's actually the path, it's also explained in Bhagavad-gītā: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. When you approach a spiritual master, you have to serve him and you have to also ask relevant questions. Otherwise, there is no exchange. If the student is not inquisitive, then why should the spiritual master waste his time speaking and speaking if he doesn't know if the student is really grasping it or learning anything? And relevant questions have to be asked. Like Prabhupāda says in the purport: absurd inquiries and blind faith are both condemned. One should question, one should not just accept blindly, but the questions have to be relevant and put forward in a humble, submissive mood. Once somebody asked Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Have you ever met Indra?" Just a kind of foolish question. And Prabhupāda said: "What difference does it make to you?" That was his answer, such a useless question is not worth answering. Another time, someone asked Prabhupāda, "Does the spiritual master know everything?" and Prabhupāda says something like, "Yes, he has complete knowledge." And then he asked this question: "How many windows are there in Buckingham Palace?" and then Prabhupāda's answer was: "How many drops of water are there in a mirage?"
You can analyze it like: a mirage is an illusion, so what's the use of even knowing about the illusion? What's the use of knowing how many windows there are in Buckingham Palace? It's completely useless knowledge because Buckingham Palace is not very important. And how many drops of water are there in this mirage? How many windows are there in Buckingham Palace, which is anyway a useless topic. So these kind of questions are not very inspiring for sādhus to get. Sādhus want real questions that come from the heart, from a person who is eager to know, who is suffering and who is understanding that this world is not where we are meant to be, and they have a desire to actually know the truth. athāto brahma jijñāsā, this is what we have to inquire about. So, are there any comments, or questions, or reflections, or something you want to add? Fråga: In the beginning, you quoted some verse, and there the idea was that, and then you speak saying that there is no enjoyment in the material world. No pleasure. Jivakesha dd: Yeah, there is material enjoyment for sure. Fråga: But you mean that there's no spiritual enjoyment? Jivakesha dd: I mean, ultimately, there is no pleasure, happiness for the soul in this material world because everything is just temporary and the soul is eternal and will never be satisfied. And the happiness we experience ultimately turns into distress, because if you have one side of the coin, you have to accept the other. So in that sense... Fråga: Very flicker. Jivakesha dd: Very flicker. So the happiness is, is only like Prabhupāda says, is only like when you try to, when they put some man under the water, and then when he comes up, almost drowning, then he accepts that as happiness. So that's the happiness in the material world, if you take, if you really see it from the spiritual point of view. From a person who has realized the true nature of this world, he understands there is no happiness. Fråga: But it's only like in a dream. Jivakesha dd: Yeah. Fråga: In the dream, we also experience pleasure and distress. Jivakesha dd: Yeah. Fråga: But it's an illusion. Jivakesha dd: Yeah, exactly. Fråga: So you experience something, but it's gone. Jivakesha dd: Yeah, it has no substance. So we have to search for brahma-saukhyam anantam, the spiritual happiness which is eternal and which continues forever, as Lord Ṛṣabhadeva says. Fråga: But if you compare with the real happiness, this material world is just... Jivakesha dd: It's totally insignificant. Then there is no real happiness because, when the great sages speak about it, they have realized the real happiness, so for them it's obvious that there is no happiness here. Yes. Fråga: So, this knowledge is like an axe, but you have to... you have to have this, I guess, to see, you have to see your own ignorance and be listening. Jivakesha dd: Yeah. Fråga: Because if it doesn't touch your heart, it doesn't have the effect of getting the illusion. Jivakesha dd: Yeah, that's a very good point. That we have to be always like in a humble mood and like always think actually we don't know. Always understand that we are totally in ignorance, we are... The spiritual master is the only person who can open our eyes with this torchlight of knowledge. And we have to, yeah, we have to be in desperate... desperation, cultivate this mood of desperation by sincere chanting, sincere service. Spiritual life is a razor's edge. So we have to always be very alert, very vigilant, otherwise we will cut ourselves. That means we will become complacent, and then we will suffer. Jivakesha dd: So this is, yeah, this is an art of... and therefore we need good association. We need association of people who are on this, like the pure devotees. That's why they're traveling all around the world. Prabhupāda was traveling all around the world constantly to like keep his devotees inspired and enlivened. It said it's very hard to make a person come out of the material world, to take him out of māyā. It's even harder to keep him out of māyā. And the hardest is to keep him inspired. So this is not easy, to be inspired always, and it's a fight, like Prabhupāda said, we read in the Lilamrita, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and fight!"
Jivakesha dd: So we have to, becoming a devotee, Prabhupāda says, is declaring war against māyā. And a warrior can never be lazy, never be inattentive. So that's how it is, spiritual life, it's a real fight. And we have to get into this mood of actually, each day is a fight, every day when we wake up, we have to shake off this ignorance, we have to pray, really, to be attentive, to hear, we have to pray to Kṛṣṇa that we can hear the next mantra and take it very seriously, and then we can also hear with rapt attention. And, yes, so this is what we have to... Fråga: I ask the same question as Parīkṣit. Jivakesha dd: Ah. Fråga: Mahārāja Parīkṣit asked... if we get the real knowledge, we easily become proud. Jivakesha dd: Yeah. Fråga: And then he says, "To get enough knowledge, you will never..."
Jivakesha dd: Ah. Fråga: So that means that if you get some knowledge, but you are satisfied with that, then you will always... Jivakesha dd: We are in that situation that we have to always be humble. To have that knowledge, then we will not be proud. Yeah. Jivakesha dd: Yeah, we have to read all the time Bhāgavatam, then we understand this. We have to understand our desperate position. Any time we can die. Prabhupāda said, someone asked: "How do you get serious in spiritual life?" "Think that you will die tomorrow." This is the reality. Any time it can be the last day. And we have such an also, someone can meditate on this: what an important mission we have, to be mission-focused because we have, the world is really on fire, it's really suffering, and we have this knowledge, and it's our duty actually. Prabhupāda, that's what he wants from us. He wants us to spread this knowledge. Otherwise, what's the use of us being Swedish? As he said, "What's the use of you being Americans?" he said to his disciples, "if you don't do something wonderful for Kṛṣṇa?" So we have to assist Prabhupāda and Lord Caitanya in spreading this knowledge. And if we are not fixed up ourselves, how can we ever convince anyone else and spread this knowledge, get the śakti? So for the sake of becoming instruments in Prabhupāda's mission, we have to take up the fight. Jivakesha dd: So if we, I mean, you have much more experience than me, but when you were on saṅkīrtana, how you probably chanted your rounds very attentively and all this because you knew that otherwise you can't do this work of saṅkīrtana, so... Yeah, we should all be in that mood. Whole Almvik can become a wonderful, what to say, hub of spiritual preaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, throughout whole Sweden, if we try, all of us, we try to be in that spirit. Fråga: Yes. Fråga: I find very [unclear] about ahaṅkāra... meditate on... because... it was described how our bodies are just part of the Lord's universal form... So, I found that such a nice... I mean, we know it's Kṛṣṇa's body, but it's His universal form. It's part of His universal form. That kind of really works. Jivakesha dd: Hmm. Yes. Okay, we have to stop. Grantharāja Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam kī jaya! Fråga: Śrīla Prabhupāda kī jaya! Jivakesha dd: Hare Kṛṣṇa!