So, we are in this conversation between Devahūti and her son, Kapiladeva, who is the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So, everything in the Bhāgavatam is very special. We don't hear so much about ordinary life. And in devotional service, sometimes the ordinary life takes over such a big percentage of our life and our existence, and sometimes even our priorities. It is sometimes hard to remember how life and death this is, how important this is, how special this is, after many, many births. So many births in this material world.
So, this section here is among those places where we have recordings of Prabhupāda's classes. So, I was listening to Prabhupāda's classes. He's in Mumbai and he's giving class on all these verses. And a very large section of that class is describing the three-fold miseries of this world. We have the miseries pertaining to the body and mind of the person himself, coming from other living entities, and coming from the devas, which means like natural causes, natural catastrophes, all of that. And I know these three terms in Sanskrit and my brain is not allowing them to come out.
ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika
ādhidaivika, yes. ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, and ādhidaivika. That's the three sources of problems. Which is kind of the three sources of everything. We live here and we think, "This is me. I am this body. I have to be in the center, I have to take care of me." But then we don't want to be alone, so we want to be surrounded by other living entities. And then we live in this world and we are dependent on what comes from the devas, so that's very nice. But no, it's the cause of suffering.
And Prabhupāda goes into detail and he keeps stressing on it, and I'm kind of thinking, "Okay, we heard this now." But did we really hear this stuff? Did we really understand the significance? Of course, I'm speaking to the audience of devotees, so obviously understand everything. But people in general, and for myself, it's really very easy to sometimes forget. We are in the day-to-day, we have to cook lunch now, we have to do our laundry now, we have to pay our bills now. And if we live in the temple, it should be better, but I remember, sometimes it's even worse, the temple president did something stupid again, and that brahmacārī, he really thinks he's something special. It's really easy to lose that level of vision. How, birth after birth, life after life... because we don't remember it. That's Kṛṣṇa's mercy. That's very intelligent because if you wake up and you remember that, "I was actually my grandfather, what am I doing here?", it would be very, very confusing.
Like we see sometimes, the discussions that sometimes end on a very material level. They are discussing who can do their service to Prabhupāda of training the future generation, being a spiritual master. No, it has to be based on the body. No, it can't be based on the body. Who knows the bodies? Everyone has a body. But right now we are human beings, and it's the greatest gift. As human beings, we have some level. There is some ability. We can understand, first, we can understand abstract concepts. I think a lot of people prefer their dog to other people because they have too much suffering coming from the other people. ādhibhautika, people are mean, people are disrespectful, people don't care about them. Their dog will always care about them. The dog will always be in ecstasy when they step in the door. The dog will never give them up. Even we sometimes see that, drug addicts who live on the street and who beat their dog, the dog stays so loyal. Yeah, but you cannot discuss anything with a dog. You cannot make a joke or play a riddle or discuss the day-to-day politics. The dog doesn't have that level, and certainly, they don't have the level of spiritual, unless in very special circumstances.
We hear in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, there is this dog who followed Śivānanda Sena. And Śivānanda Sena was taking care of the party, so he was responsible. Those who took shelter of him for the traveling to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in Jagannātha Purī. He paid for the ferry crossings, he arranged for the living quarters, he fixed everything. And then a dog somehow joins them, so he thought, "Okay, he took shelter of me." Like Parīkṣit Mahārāja when Kali personified, he was going to kill him because he was such a crook, he was doing the worst things. And then he took shelter of him, then he can't kill him. He has to give him shelter. So Śivānanda Sena, he gave shelter to this dog. He had to pay extra to take him on the ferry because the ferryman didn't want a dog on his ferry. And then they came to Jagannātha Purī, and Lord Caitanya saw this dog. Because with Lord Caitanya's pastimes, they are so close, we cannot reduce them to principles.
Sometimes when we read the Bhāgavatam, it's like the principle becomes stronger than the person. This story shows this, and this story shows that. And there's even a whole list of all the demons in Kṛṣṇa-līlā, they represent different anarthas. But they are also demons, they are also actually there, they are also fighting with Kṛṣṇa. And sometimes, but in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the person kind of comes first. Philosophy is there, Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī makes sure to the first chapter of Caitanya-caritāmṛta is like, "Don't misunderstand this. It's not some cute stories. It's actually like this." So, we have to read that chapter. That's one of the reasons Prabhupāda, because there are different biographies of Lord Caitanya, but Prabhupāda takes Caitanya-caritāmṛta because it gives Lord Caitanya and it gives no grounds for misunderstanding who this person was.
So, the devotees come and they meet Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya sees the dog, so He throws him a piece of the nice sweet pulp in the coconut. Yes, and He says, "Chant Kṛṣṇa." And the dog goes, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." And the next day, nobody saw that dog, he went back to the spiritual world. But these are exceptional stories. In general, you have to be a human being, and we are all human beings. We go out and look at people, and they are also all human beings, although they kind of forget that to some extent because the animal propensities, Prabhupāda is saying, eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. And it sounds a little almost disrespectful, but it is a fact, we have that in common with the animals.
We have to eat, but we have prasādam. We have to sleep, but devotees, they didn't say Prabhupāda slept, they say he took rest. We have to rest the body to some extent. Different bodies have different needs for that, and we cannot push ourselves too much in either direction before everything breaks down. Like we hear about Prabhupāda, that he slept very, very little. And he was with devotees all day. He was up for the maṅgala-ārati, he walked for the japa walk, and he came for the morning program, and he was dealing with everything in the day. And then he took some rest here and there, and he had a very strict schedule. In the middle of the night, he was up translating. And I know sometimes if I'm up very late, I can be awake, I can wash my dishes, but I certainly cannot do intellectual work.
So, Prabhupāda's transcendental, a pure devotee can be transcendental, but some need is there for sleep, because otherwise you go crazy. That's one of the methods for torture is to not allow someone to sleep, then they go crazy. So, we have to sleep, not too little, and also not too much, because then this tamoguṇa atmosphere will stay with us the whole time. So, there is a balance. And there is eating, but we take prasādam, so devotee's eating is fully transcendental, Kṛṣṇa is there. And we don't even say eat, we say we take rest because the body has to rest, we take prasādam because we honor prasādam, we respect prasādam, because to not to take the prasādam would be very disrespectful. And different persons have different needs there as well. And a new devotee, take as much as possible because then this prasādam will cover your every other sensual need. Then when we grow up, it will be different because too much prasādam will then kind of start to feed those sensual needs again, or it will develop diseases. But it's still going on.
Mating is very limited, within the family, and within the marriage, and we will have nice Kṛṣṇa conscious children, and then they will grow up, and they will take over everything, so we are very happy. And defending, I mean, defending doesn't have to mean war. It also means, you don't sleep in the forest, you sleep in a house, you pay your insurance. Those things are taken care of, but they are not the main thing. The main thing is the soul's relationship to Kṛṣṇa.
And we don't wake up one morning and remember Kṛṣṇa. Why not? Why is Kṛṣṇa so cruel to us? Why has He withdrawn from us? Because He reciprocates. He always reciprocates. And we are so ingrained in this habit of wanting Him out of our lives. He gave us the whole, He didn't only give us the whole universe, He gave us the whole material world where we can turn our back on Him because, He's not vindictive, like, "Okay, you don't care about me, Hare Kṛṣṇa, I'm going to make you suffer forever." No, suffering doesn't come from Kṛṣṇa. Suffering, we have to take our responsibility for. And then people say, "That's very cruel. That's very cruel." But maybe very cruel, but it's also helpful because if we know, it's like the addict mentality, "It wasn't my fault. My mother was so mean." I know a very close person who was a devotee, but had a very difficult time to give up smoking, and he was saying, "Well, I have to, when I'm married to that wife, how can I not smoke?" Yeah, sure. Go ahead, be in misery forever and blame someone else, it's not going to help you.
So, we have to give up that mentality, we have to accept, we've been in this world for many, many, many lifetimes, and many of them we have rejected Kṛṣṇa out of hand, many of them we have mistreated the other living entities around us. And depending on our responsibility, like even they say the king, or the head of the state, they take six, a sixth of all the people's karma. So, they shouldn't be so eager for that. It's going to cost them if they don't take their responsibility to give people the proper basis for spiritual life, they will suffer. We all suffer, we suffer and we suffer and we suffer. Yeah, you can go and find those classes from Prabhupāda, he will let us know all about the suffering from the three different sides in this world.
So, the conclusion is here: "Your Lordship is my only means of getting out of this darkest region of ignorance because You are my transcendental eye, which by Your mercy only I have attained after many, many births." So, it's stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that after many, many births one surrenders to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And similarly, after many, many births, one is able to find a bona fide spiritual master and surrender. To such a bona fide spiritual representative of Kṛṣṇa, one can be taken to the side of light. Pāragam, crossing over. Sat-cakṣu, transcendental eye. Janmanām ante, at the end of births.
So, Prabhupāda wants to stress how extremely important this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is, and how it is there only by the mercy of the pure devotee who take the trouble to come here and to instruct, and to instruct, and to give, and to... It's all very mystical because when the devotee gives, then Kṛṣṇa also gives. Like, if a devotee does something or says something, Kṛṣṇa will even break His own word. That's why in Bhagavad-gītā, at some place, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "Declare it boldly that My devotee will never perish." Kṛṣṇa could have just said it, but everybody knows Kṛṣṇa is a tricky guy. But when His devotee says something, then Kṛṣṇa has to fulfill that.
So, when the devotee comes and tries to save us... like Prabhupāda, I mean, I wasn't alive, there was some overlap of me being alive and Prabhupāda being on this planet, but I've never met him and I was too young, I would not have been able to appreciate, I think. I don't think that would have been possible. But we hear what Prabhupāda said. Someone tells us, we read the Bhāgavatam, now we can find the sound files. It's fantastic. It's really fantastic. I am so feeling how we are so fortunate. Like, our closest local religions like Islam and Christianity, they have a few books that were written down, years and years after the person was... Like, imagine if you started to write Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta now from all the memories. It would be still wonderful, but it would be a little limited. Now we have the sound files of Prabhupāda himself speaking and the purports, translation, all his books.
So, this whole mystical thing, this whole incredibly important thing, goes hand-in-hand also with, regulating our eating and sleeping, because it's yoga. It's not, we're not a crazy sect and we're going to sit in the temple room and all die together and go to God. It's very realistic. We can live, but we can take that mercy of Kṛṣṇa and make it, of our spiritual master, and make it the highest priority of all in our lives in a practical way, because that is so wonderful. We have all this knowledge.
I'm trying to argue with my sister, but it's not possible because she doesn't take psychology seriously. But Christianity gives the direction of bhakti, but it doesn't give a philosophical framework for it. They're struggling now like, the big debate is if God is so great and if God is so powerful, why are we suffering? Why is He giving us suffering? What kind of a God is that? No, He's the kind of God that said, "Okay, you don't want to be here in this sac-cid-ānanda wonderful place. Okay, I will give you another place, but it will not be sac-cid-ānanda wonderful. It will be limited because you want to forget me." And it's not really possible, but we try so hard and we try to put ourselves in Kṛṣṇa's place. And Kṛṣṇa can handle being the controller and enjoyer. He can take all of our love. It's not going to go to His head because it's the... it is a fact. It is a fact He is all of our Lords. Like, even here we can just sometimes think about it how...
We go to the city on Hisingen and we drive through the fjord, and we look at every window and there's a person there. In the heart of that person, Supersoul is there. And we look out in the forest and there are like a million trees, and in the heart of every tree, Kṛṣṇa is there, every blade of grass, every ant. We carry them out of the house and they come in the spring, and they keep coming because there's [not] many of ants. And in the heart of each and every one, Supersoul is there. Kṛṣṇa is following us, He has that capacity. But He's the permitter and the witness. He's not interfering with our free will. It's only that our scope is limited by our karma.
Nārāyaṇa is speaking about the spiritual bank balance and the material bank balance. So, the material bank balance is our karma. According to our activities, we have access. Like we may want to go to the south for a nice holiday, so if we have a very good bank balance, we can go to Thailand or India for a couple of months. And if our bank balance is a little tighter, we can go to Gothenburg for the weekend. The desire is the same, but the scope is limited by the karma. So, that's this world and that's not Kṛṣṇa's fault. He has had to set it up in a way, and as much as you want to argue with that setup, you cannot think of a better way to do it because there isn't a better way to do it. If there would have been a better way, Kṛṣṇa would have done it. But at the same time, it's a dream, so no matter how much we suffer, our time perspective is different. Like, Prabhupāda speaks about some of these, I don't know, the flies, they're not flies, they're bigger than flies, but they take birth and they die in one day.
Dragonfly.
Yeah. Dragonfly, yeah. Dragonfly. In English, everything is fly. Butterfly is really fun. We heard in an old class with Hari-śaurya, he has a German translator who keeps saying, "Butterfliege, Butterfliege." What do you mean, "Smörfluga"? No, that doesn't make sense. Anyway, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the fact they live in one day. The whole birth, death, old age, and disease goes on in one day. And we think, "That's nothing." But for them, it's a lifetime. And the devas, they live... like one summer is the day, one winter is the night. And they look at us like our life is... but for us, it's a whole lifetime. And then Brahmā is sitting there and with his one day, all these devas come and go, several times over, if my memory serves me right. No, anyway, Brahmā looks at them like we look at the fly. But for them, it's a lifetime. And for us, it's inconceivable.
So, Mahā-Viṣṇu breathes out, breathes in. So, we think our suffering lasts for a very long time, but that's because we are conditioned by our present birth. So, this whole experience is a, like a virtual reality. So, it's real, but it's not really real, it's kind of real. And then we have to come to the point where we really want to turn around, but then we'll need that mercy of the spiritual master, after many, many births. And then we have that mercy, and then kind of the years go by, and we kind of, "Yes, my life, yeah." So, we have to just come back, we have to chant, we have to hear in the association of devotees, because if we're just sitting alone and reading, then it's kind of like our mind is gradually, gradually... Is there a word for that?
Decay? Decay or get more and more distracted because you just get so complacent in the situation?
Yeah, but also like philosophically, when you don't have the response of a devotee. We saw that some very intelligent devotees, when Harikeśa left, they didn't have that sounding board anymore, so their intelligence started to spin them off. And suddenly that made sense to them to think that their Sanskrit interpretation was better than Prabhupāda, and they started to criticize, and bam, they were gone. So, we need that exchange, that relationship with devotees.
We have a devotee who visits for festivals, and he was saying once that, "Oh, I'm such a rough fellow, when I'm with the devotees, I just commit offenses, so I avoid associating with the devotees." No, that's not the right conclusion. No. So, we need the association of devotees, we need the mercy of the spiritual master, and we need it more than we need food and sleep, because food and sleep, if we don't have that, we will die, but the soul will go on to the next place. We don't recommend it, I mean, we're not recommending passing suicide, don't get me wrong. But like if we can try to realize, that mercy of the spiritual master is more important than food and sleep, because that is our lifeline.
Like, they have this discussion sometimes, a philosophical discussion, theological discussion, do we get liberated by mercy or by own endeavors? And they take the example of the kitten, the monkey baby, they have to hold on to the monkey mother, and she swings around in the trees, and the monkey holds on for dear life, and if he doesn't, he falls off and... I don't know, maybe the mother picks him up, I don't know, but that's the example. Whereas the kitten, the mother just grabs it by the scruff of his neck and carries it. So, how is it in spiritual life? And then the Vaiṣṇavas give the other example of, if you're in a dark well and you cannot get out, if you cannot see, you don't know anything, and then the guru throws you a rope, then you can get out by his mercy, but you also have to hold on yourself. So, it's both. So, we read the Bhāgavatam over and over. I wanted to read the Bhagavad-gītā verse because Prabhupāda refers to it.
bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare.
So, we all had that intuition to look for something more and to reach for something more. And I don't know, like, the devotees who grew up here, it was probably more than intuition because they heard about Kṛṣṇa from their whole birth. But it's like, I was training aikido for a while and we had the kids' groups, and I was saying, "Oh, so wonderful, these kids, they train their whole life, they will be so great." And then one of the teachers was saying, "No, no, they play. They have to come to the point where they take their own individual decision, they don't really make advancement earlier."
So, our children, they have the best... hopefully, we have given them the best foundation to take that step of dedication, of understanding, of, "it's not just, okay, Mommy and Daddy wear these clothes and they put these clothes on me and I will dance and I will smile." Or sometimes they go the other way, "I'm not going to do that." Which often is a sign of intelligence, which often are those who become the best devotees after all. They come to a point also where, "This is for real now, and this is me now, me and Kṛṣṇa now."
And then the same... of course, it was obviously in Prabhupāda's times, it was easier, you read such a verse and you know, we go to Prabhupāda. Now we have to kind of pray a little harder, think a little deeper. But it's the same principle, Kṛṣṇa will send the guru, we will have to take shelter, and we will have to understand how incredibly essential life and death this actually is. It's not just, you know, culture, or it's not just a fashion. Prabhupāda often criticizes that. I don't know if it is a fashion anymore, but fashion to take a guru, like, "I have a guru, well, I have a dog." No. Life and death, our relationship to Kṛṣṇa is the most important thing. But in order to be able to have that focus, regulated life, and in order to not forget that focus, association with devotees. So, we have everything, we just have to take advantage of it, and therefore we come together and we speak about the Bhāgavatam every day. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hopefully, maybe there will be some comments from the august assembly or questions. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Hare Kṛṣṇa. I thought also that example of the rope and the spiritual master throwing the rope. But actually, it's a joke because I like it very much because sometimes, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura writes in Śaraṇāgati that actually madhyama-adhikārī can give the faith, can build the faith in the parts of the assembly, can always inspire others. And uttama-bhakta, he have a prema, basically like, okay, in the ideal scenario, because he have a prema, he can imbue all the stages, even up to the prema in the heart of the devotees. And it's just like, sometimes, like I personally, when I kind of start to practice, I had this kind of like, "Yeah, you know..." Because there is this like aspect of kṛpā from the guru, from the Guru-tattva. Kṛpā, because one can get to pure devotion through the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, like, or on behalf of Vaiṣṇava, that he prays for you. But it's not like from one day to another, I just... sometimes, I had that wanted this like quick fix, like a drug, like, just come to you, like, "Oh, you know, and then we have it, right?" The thing is like, because he get to prema stage, or whatever he is, uttama-bhakta, he know the path. And then he can instruct. And he can instruct our follow his instruction, like holding on his lotus feet through his instruction, because he walked the path himself, and then he can guide me how I can walk the path myself. But I still have to do the work. And it's going to take some years. Is it a lifetime? But then, yeah, by the kṛpā of spiritual master, one can actually develop and change his heart from malice to go on. Yeah, and that's the system. It's not like quick fix like a magician will come, smack you with the pipe, and just going to make you ecstasy.
Yeah. No. I think it is good.
It's wonderful.
It's wonderful. Because also, it's like, sometimes, it's like, "Oh, why I can't have it right now?" Because thing is, you understand that like, there is this statement that when Kṛṣṇa's eyes kind of like going of the light all the time, because if he was just watched you, he would just melt you off, you would not be able to turn on, right? And there is things like, we have to be able to gradually purify ourselves, and gradually be able to handle these energies which kind of like, are in our hearts from the soul. And that's why we have to go through the process that we are able to handle them, and don't like kind of, you know, cause like disturbances in society and things like that. So, I think it is very safe, and it's very nice process, and I'm happy to be on the path, as everybody else, and I'm grateful. Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. And also, it's our desire, you know. The guru's not going to come and give you, "Now you're going to just love Kṛṣṇa and forget about yourself." As long as we don't want to, it's not going to happen. But at the same time, as soon as we try to, Kṛṣṇa will help us. And the guru, sometimes they are asking, like, "Does the guru know everything?" and they try to put Prabhupāda on the spot, like, "You know, how many straws of hairs is on my head?" And it's like, no, the guru knows what Kṛṣṇa wants him to know. But because somebody's desires are pure to serve Kṛṣṇa, there's not a lot of garbage in the way. You know, like you try to listen to the radio, I don't know if anyone does that anymore, you turn this little thing, and you almost get a station, but there's a lot of garbage on the way. But when you get a pure signal, you can hear it. So, if the person's heart is pure, and he or she has surrendered to that, and that's the only desire on their part, now we're just waiting for our desire to mature. And I think what you're describing is a little bit of anartha-nivṛtti, there is so much stuff we have accumulated for years. And it's our own desires to some extent, and it's conditioning to a large extent, it's conditioning. You know, we have this habit of having ourselves in the center, and it's a little hard to give it up. And then there is so very many instructive books of all these different stages, all the different types of anarthas, and we had this seminar on Mādhurya-kādambinī, that gave us like some new insights. And then some devotees are just simple devotees, and they don't need a lot of detail, philosophical things, they just serve Kṛṣṇa and they are happy and they will get Kṛṣṇa.
And Prabhupāda, like, if you want to listen to this, Prabhupāda is speaking, I mean, he starts from verse one on this 25th chapter, and he goes on for quite a while, daily classes on one verse every day, and in one he speaks about the guru and he says, "It's not difficult." You know, if the father tells the child, "This is a microphone," and the child tells you, "This is a microphone." Because sometimes we are making things unnecessary complicated. Like I'm following this whole Vaiṣṇava, the Vaiṣṇava-dikṣā-guru thing, and it seems like... like a lot of it is not philosophical, a lot of it is emotional. We just don't want women to have positions. Then you have to understand, guru's not a position. Varṇāśrama, you have, you know, the four, Śūdra, Vaiśya, Kṣatriya, Brāhmaṇa, and on the other side you have Brahmacārī, Gṛhastha, Vānaprastha, and Sannyāsa. Those are positions. Temple president, that is position. Guru is relationship. And maybe we have made it like a position because we can't help ourselves, we will worship the guru, like, you know... they were asking Prabhupāda, like, "You know, why are you driving a golden car?" And he said, "Well, the disciples should give the guru a gold car." So, there's nothing wrong with that impulse. But then when we use our conditioned mind to look at it, it looks like a position. You know, so therefore we don't want to give women positions. The point is, somebody can give you Kṛṣṇa. It's wonderful. And Prabhupāda said, "Who will initiate after you? All my boys and girls." And that's what he wanted. Realistically, some women, even the women... "Yes, but not so many." And then they're sitting there and what is it called, splitting hairs. "How do we make sure it's not so many?" I don't think you have to worry, there are not so many women that take on that service, you know. But we encourage everybody to do a service, and we appreciate the service. But then as a disciple, if you don't like Vaiṣṇava-dikṣā-gurus, don't take initiation from one, it's very simple.
I just read in Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Śikṣā-amṛta. It's basically Śikṣā-amṛta by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What Caitanya wanted, then, in the lips of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, and he is just describing this principle. He say like, there is going to be few Vaiṣṇavi-gurus, and that's completely natural. And if you inclined to this kind of dikṣā and śikṣā, you just take it. It doesn't going to be so many, but it's a natural thing. There always is going to be some souls in female bodies who are doing service, and you should just take the opportunity.
Yeah. And all of us, to our best of our ability, we should try to understand Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy and practice. We should try learn to appreciate Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy and practice, we should apply it ourselves, Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy and practice, and then we should try to give it. But our ability to give, it's not something we have to limit, it's already limited. But if everyone is trying to give, and then we will see whose giving will have more effect. And then we appreciate that.
So, it's like sowing the crops, right? You throwing all the seeds, but some of them pick up, some of them doesn't.
No, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
By the devotee, devotee of them, they will take it.
Yeah. That's even one of the Jesus analogies, you throw the seeds, some of them fall on the fertile ground, some of them fall on the stone, you know. But we try. And we're grateful for all the devotees who are here around so we can... because nobody could do this alone. And I mean, maybe, you know, couldn't Prabhupāda do it alone? No, because that was not his instruction. Wherever he went, he made new devotees, you know. So, and either side you are on, you need the association of devotees, or you're able to give so that you will create the association of devotees. We go to the spiritual world, we're not going to be alone. We're going to be, you know, assisting somebody who is assisting somebody, and maybe we get to pick the flowers for somebody making a garland, you know. There is service for all of us, but we're not going to be there alone.
And it's like, devotional service is a means and the goal at the same time, yes? Because sometimes, you know, like, if you hear some other religions, they think, "Oh, I going to go to the heaven, or somewhere, I don't have obligation." But actually for Vaiṣṇavas like, devotional service is a means, and ultimate goal to do it unlimitedly like, forever basically.
Yeah. And that's so beautiful, it's like, sweet in every bit. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
But I had a quick question. You said that, that the head of state, head of state, eh, or king, he takes one sixth of the of the dependents' karma.
All karma, all karma.
All karma. But, because I remember that it is that, that the king takes one sixth of the good karma of the citizens, and one fifth of the bad karma.
I haven't heard that, I only heard one sixth. But it's possible, but it's still going to be a lot. In either case, you try...
Because if we divided, you know, like, the bad and the good karma, then we take more of the bad karma, therefore, he...
I've never heard that, but it's a lot. In either case, he tried...
No, no, not exactly, but what it says, the physical state for him, he will not prosper. And that's why like, the king, it's supposed to be kind of like, inquisitive to do all the good arrangements in society, that he can collect all these pious things, and advance more for the...
So, I don't know that, that's something we have to look up, either way, it's going to be a lot. You don't want to be president of the United States. You really, really don't. Because even if there's a lot of good karma, it's not going to, even the good karma keeps you in the material world. So, I guess the only solution is to be a devotee and do it as a service, because when you do it as a service, there is no karma. But I don't know this, so that's a question I can't answer.
I would like to ask this principle what you was talking about, because like, to being king, and getting this karma, it's a principle, basically, right? So, can one understand from that that basically every leader of the community, or every person who is leading some kind of group of people, it's actually also responsible for their development, and also getting share of their benefits and negatives?
Obviously, you take that responsibility. It's stated, you should never become a teacher, a father, or anything, unless you can...
Deliver.
...deliver your followers. But if it's exactly in that form of karma, I don't know, and also I heard, which is was good for my understanding, it doesn't say you have to deliver them, it says you should be able to deliver them. So, if you're able to give them instructions, but they don't follow them, that's not on you.
That's good. That's wise. Thank you. Yes.
Yeah.
Okay. So, if somebody is able to deliver, then is it like guaranteed that they are able to go up home themselves?
It's not that everyone has to be a pure devotee, there is not such a principle. Everybody has to, like like, if you take shelter of your spiritual master, and then you're guiding somebody with the same instructions, they have access to those instructions. It doesn't mean they take them, and it also doesn't mean you will be a pure devotee, but it goes on. You know, we're not doing utopias, we're not doing impossible promises, but we're doing something that's reasonable, and it makes sense, and it actually works. But as every once in a while, we get one of these little nuggets of knowledge like the king takes six, a sixth of all the karma, it's very heavy. But in smaller groups, I haven't heard that. Because a king has a certain specific responsibility, he has to be first in line if there is an invading army, he has to open his own private money if there is starvation, you know, he has to listen to the brāhmaṇas. So, he has to do that which is his duty. And if he's not in line with the, you know, with that knowledge and that empowerment from Kṛṣṇa, his position, it will wreak havoc. But it's also Kali-yuga, and fortunately Kali-yuga is the shortest age, and we all suffer like anything, and we can even see here year by year, you know, nature is giving up on us, countries are giving up on their people, everything is getting worse, and we're looking for that, where is that golden age? But we're just in the first beginning, it's 10,000 years, oh, 10,000 years.
Yes, 10,000 years.
And it just started after Lord Caitanya, 500 years. So, there is scope for improvement. But parallel to that, Kali-yuga is kind of trying its hardest, you know, for what it can do. Anyway, we have Kṛṣṇa, we also don't have to be complicated, but we have to be a little bit intelligent, because sometimes when the doubts come, it's good to have a foundation, foundational understanding of reality, so... because that happens a lot in other religions when they don't really have that deep foundational philosophy, something happens and they can get thrown off track. Like with Christianity, when science started to be a little more significant, it threw a lot of them off, you know, because it didn't fit in their worldview. But for us, everything fits in our worldview because Bhāgavatam is so wonderful. Whether we can understand it or not, that's okay, you know, but at least we can see Kṛṣṇa made a good arrangement, and we're here for it. Hare.
I think recently, actually yesterday or two days ago, I have been to like Vaiṣṇava group whatever and we was discussing on one platform...
In the house or in the internet?
No, on the, on the mobile. Connected by some application whatever, and then I just ask one kind of person, because he seems to be very knowledgeable, and all things, like devotee, Vaiṣṇava, and ask him about, because like I was kind of like try to figure out where I am from Śraddhā to Prema, and whenever that I wanted to start to read some more advanced teachings. But actually he give me such a nice answer, he just said like, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most drastic picture of all, actually.
Yes.
And Śrīla Prabhupāda make it such a nice way that is very safe for us. And he say, there is in our world there is medicines, and in one point there is also some heavy medicines like heavy metals, which actually, could be poison. And he actually said that this, these medicines have to be really applied with perfect, like physician, that you don't kill yourself on this medicine. And he said, similarly these, these Śrīla Prabhupāda's book, high rāsa, those quality of teachings, they have to be, they are applied with guidance of really good physician, or they could they have big potential power to destroy the lust, but also to inflict the heart with the lust, if the heart is not pure enough. If one's heart is not pure enough, and of course we are like almost ever like in that stage, right? Right now at the moment. So, it could actually magnify the lusty potency. Rāsa-līlā, rāsa energy in us.
Yeah.
Because you don't have this, this, this expert physician who can apply this, this very powerful medicine. And that's why like, I was appreciating how safe Śrīla Prabhupāda made all his put to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and it actually swayed me from approaching what I am reading now is this Caitanya-śikṣāmṛta, I was very early to go to Pañca-tattva. But now I just, you know why, I just want to visit the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I just read it again, third time, and I'm very happy and more than content, and I'm going to see, because like I feel Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is just so beautiful, that it actually allows you according to your adhikār stage of realization and purity...
Yes.
...to churn this nectar and rāsa between this relationship with devotees and his and his and Kṛṣṇa in different conviction or whatever form. And that's actually what is everything made for, just taste this relationships on the pages of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and the highest like self-contentment and art like actual blow.
Yeah. And I want to just add one thing is, you can also read Caitanya-caritāmṛta, because you have all that very intense loving rāsa, but He is, there are no ladies in it.
Yeah.
So, you can read it very safely.
Exactly.
There are no ladies in He can not mistake it for lust. It will be very safe for you, but it will be very intense and personal, and and it's also given by Prabhupāda. Because sometimes, you know, there are many books, but when they're not given from Prabhupāda, then I cannot 100% trust them.
Of course. Of course.
But when Prabhupāda has given it... and sometimes they criticize him for not given the highest, but you know, read the conversation of Rāmānanda Rāya, you don't need to go higher than that.
True, because that's the highest, basically, you don't have to go higher.
Yeah, yeah. But there will be no like, you know, what are you going to do? The bhakta comes in and pays his obeisances, and He actually go, her name is Citralekhā and and actually He is doing, sorry, what are you going to do with that? But we will come to that relationship, and guru will bring us to the devotee who we will serve under in the spiritual world. And in the meanwhile, while we are neophytes, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is satisfying. And whatever trouble we will have here, we would have had it outside also. And the more we advance, it will be revealed through guru's mercy and to Kṛṣṇa in the heart, everything will be there. But as you said, it is safe, because it's under the guidance.
Yes, and the guru is a Guru-tattva in whole in general, right?
Huh?
If we refer to guru as a Guru-tattva in whole...
Yeah, yeah.
...because sometimes you know, guru leaves, you know, and then another Guru-tattva just takes over on the form and is taking care of the devotee.
Hare Kṛṣṇa. I think everybody now wants to take the next step to realize Kṛṣṇa through prasādam. It's Ekādaśī also today, so we get to go deeper in our chanting and everything, and there will be some feast and... please forgive any mistakes and offenses, and...
Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Thank you.