He began to see that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is seated in everyone's heart, and that everyone is existing on Him because He is the Super Soul of everyone.
So, in this verse, it's described how Kardama Muni realized the supreme. This is, as Prabhupāda explained, the advanced devotee sees God everywhere, not only in the temple. For neophytes, the temple is a place where you can go and see God, basically. But for one who actually realized God, he can see Him everywhere. He is not limited to a particular time or place.
It's described in the, is it Viṣṇu Saṁhitā? Which is a Pañcarātra text. It's described about the deity, how for one who is not, how to say, God-realized, he cannot focus on God's form or God's, what do you call it, all-pervading aspect, that He is everywhere. It's very difficult to focus on such. So, therefore, the deity is there to help him focus so that he will not just fall asleep. It's said in the verse that if you just try to focus on some abstract, how to say, sūkṣma, very subtle aspect of God, he will just fall asleep. So, the deity is there to give a point of focus where one can focus on God. And then, it is said parokṣam, that one should still remember, kiñcid anusmaret, one should still remember while worshipping this deity that God is also beyond the eyes, beyond the perception. It's not that God is only this form that I'm seeing, but He has a form which is parokṣa, transcendental, or beyond what I can see with my eyes.
But then, this all-pervading aspect of God is very central to the Vedic scriptures. They talk a lot about this. And here in the first part of the verse, ātmānaṁ sarva-bhūteṣu bhagavantam avasthitam, it is talking about the Lord as the indweller in everything, the one who is present inside everything, sarva-bhūta. Now, bhūta means anything that has come into being, because the verbal root, bhū, means to be, and bhūta means that which has come into being. And that means not only the living beings, but also anything, the matter, anything that exists, the Lord has entered it. First, He enters the whole universe, and then when the universe is created, He enters into all parts of every being, every atom. Avasthitam, He is situated there.
And then, the second part, apaśyat sarva-bhūtāni, He saw that all these bhūtas, all the beings, all the things that exist, also bhagavaty api cātmani, they also exist inside Him, or on Him, as Prabhupāda said, on the Super Soul. That is talking about that everything is depending on God, basically, everything depends on God for their very existence, for their very functioning, for their very activity, for their knowledge, cognition. Everything depends on God for everything. Like in Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says raso 'ham apsu kaunteya, that "I am the rasa, the taste in the water." And this very taste is dependent on God. The perception of that taste is dependent on God.
So, this verse, what it talks about, that is the real meaning of the kind of monistic statements in the Vedas. The Vedas are full of monism, speaking about everything as God. There are statements that the ocean is God, or God is the ocean, God is the sun, God is the moon, and so on. The real meaning is that He pervades everything. I will come back to that point. But, I will focus on these two points: that God is pervading everything, and everything is depending on God for their very existence.
The word ātma, first, I will go into the meaning of the word ātma here. Ātma means, generally, that which is the active principle in something. It comes from the root at. At, which atati is the verb, which means to go continuously, or to move, or to run continually. That is like the root meaning of the root at. And then, you put the suffix manan, manin, and then it becomes ātma, ātman.
And there is a Sanskrit dictionary which talks about this word. He says, atati, atati is the verb, to go continually, santatabhāvena, eternally, basically, or always. jāgrad-ādi-sarvāvasthāsu anuvartate, He is continually situated in the states of dreaming, wakefulness, and deep sleep. These different states. He is always situated there continually, or always. And, therefore, He is known as ātma. And that can, of course, refer to both the individual soul because that is also situated there in all states of our existence. But, the Super Soul, God, is also the self of the self. He is the self of our self. And, that is talked about in the Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad, that He is the one who has everything as His body, yasya śarīram, the whole universe, our very self is the body of God. That means that He is the indweller in everything. And, He is the indweller, and He is the controller of everything. Therefore, everything in the universe is spoken about as the body of God.
So, this is the meaning of the word ātma, the one who follows in all these states of existence.
And then, sarva-bhūteṣu, in all living beings. Bhagavantam comes from the word bhaga, which means like an opulence or some great virtue, basically. And vān means the one who possesses. Bhagavān, He possesses all virtues and opulences.
So, all the Vedas speak about God in various ways to glorify His qualities. Sometimes, it seems that the Vedas speak about everything except God, if you open and read on the surface. It seems like the Vedas mostly speak about all kinds of different things, all kinds of gods, all kinds of other things. But, if you go deeper, if you go into the meaning of each word and every name, you will see that that name denotes some particular quality, some attribute. And that attribute describes God. So, therefore, that word, every word expresses God.
This is the meaning of vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Not that 99% of the Vedas, I am not to be known, by 1% of the Vedas, I am to be known. Because that's the general idea of Vedānta, that, oh, Upaniṣads, they speak about God, rest of the Vedas, they speak about karma, speak about devatās. But, this is on a very superficial level. You have to go deeper, and to see how God is glorified everywhere.
This is stated again and again in the Vedic scriptures, sarve vedā yat padam āmananti, all the Vedas are glorifying the Supreme. vāsudeva-parā vedā, this is from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, all the Vedas have God as their subject. sarva-nāmā sa ca viśva-rūpaḥ, this is also from Bhāgavatam, sarva-nāmā, He is the one who has all names. All names are His, because they denote a particular quality of Him. yo devānāṁ nāma-dhā eka eva, He is the possessor of the names of all the devas.
And, this is from the Ṛgveda, indraṁ mitraṁ varuṇam agnim āhur ekaṁ sad viprā bahudhā vadanti. That the viprā, the learned ones, they speak of this one truth as Indra, Varuṇa, Mitra, Agni. These are names of Viṣṇu. and, you can break them down. For example, we have the word agni. Agni can mean many things. Here, it can mean agra-netṛtvam. If you break it down like etymologically, it can mean the one who activates the body of all, the one who is giving the functioning of everyone, of the bodies, or He is the prime mover of everything. So, this is the meaning of agni, for example.
devam, the word devam doesn't only mean god, like in a general sense, deva, god. But, if you break it down etymologically, it means one who shines, or one who plays, one who is praised, or delightful. So, in this way, God is glorified in all the Vedas. And, that's because He has all the good qualities. That's the meaning of Bhagavān, basically.
So, this Bhagavān is now situated in every living being.
So now, this all-pervasiveness is the real intention behind the statements in the Vedas about the Lord being everything, or that we are God. Because sometimes you read, tat tvam asi, we are that Supreme. ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am that Brahman. Or in Bhagavad-gītā, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, a great soul, he understands vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, he knows that Vāsudeva is everything. So, if God is everything, that means that I am also God, because I am part of everything, and God is everything, so then I must also be God. That is the very surface meaning, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti.
In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, it is also said that Viṣṇu is the ocean, Viṣṇu is the trees, Viṣṇu is, yeah, like that. So, we have to find some, we cannot accept that on the surface level, because it goes against our very perception, our very experience. If I am God, then why am I suffering? Like, God means the supreme controller of everything, the independent existence. So, if I am that God, then there is no possibility for me to suffer. So, this is, based on our perception and logic, we cannot accept this straightforward meaning that everything is God.
Therefore, it's very important to have what is called hermeneutics when you approach śāstra. Sometimes, we are recommended, oh, we should not interpret śāstra, we should accept what is there verbatim. It is a sin to put on our interpretation. And, that is true, we cannot interpret in the sense that we put our own mental ideas into the śāstra. But rather, we have to see the whole śāstra and interpret the śāstra so that it becomes a coherent whole, basically.
It is stated in Kūrma Purāṇa, pūrvāparānurodhena ko nvartho 'bhimato bhavet ityādyaṁ ūhanaṁ tarkaḥ śuṣkatarkaṁ tu varjayet. That one should use one's logic to see what is the meaning here in this statement, what is the meaning so that it will not contradict prior statements and statements that come after. Basically, we have to see, we have to harmonize it, so that it says one thing and not contradict it, that there are contradictory statements. This is a very basic principle of Mīmāṁsā or interpretation. But then, of course, we do not have that full understanding. So, then the ācārya is also giving that interpretation.
But, I just want to bring out the idea that it is a misconception that it's wrong to interpret śāstra. Everyone has to interpret. Everything they read, they have to interpret. Otherwise, even when I'm speaking, you are interpreting in your mind what I'm saying. So, when Prabhupāda says we should not interpret, it means we should not bring our own ideas, speculations into the śāstra.
So, to come back to this point that everything is God, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, what does that actually mean? Then, we have to go to Bhagavad-gītā, the 11th chapter, where Arjuna says to Kṛṣṇa, sarvaṁ samāpnoṣi tato 'si sarvaḥ. He says, sarvaṁ samāpnoṣi, You pervade everything, You enter into everything. sarvaṁ samāpnoṣi means that You pervade everything. tataḥ, therefore, tato 'si sarvaḥ, therefore, You are everything, or therefore, You are called sarva. Therefore, You are everything, not that everything is God, but because You have pervaded everything, You are called sarva. That's what Kṛṣṇa is saying. And, that we always have to keep in mind when we hear these statements.
In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa also, it is said, yo 'yaṁ tavāgato deva samīpaṁ devatā-gaṇaḥ sa tvam eva jagat-sraṣṭā yataḥ sarva-gato bhavān. "O Lord, the devatās, the host of gods, who approach You, are indeed You, the creator of the universe, because You are everywhere, You are all-pervading, You are entering into everything."
So, it doesn't mean it doesn't mean that everything is God, it means that everything is pervaded by God and have God as their inner soul and controller. That's the meaning.
And, there is in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad, it talks about the senses, the eyes, the ears, not the physical, but the hearing, the seeing, the sense of touch, and so on. These five senses. And then, there is the prāṇa also, which is the living force, the breath. And, this Chāndogya Upaniṣad speaks about the supremacy of the breath, of prāṇa.
So, the Upaniṣad, it says that each of these senses left the body to see what happened. So, first, the sense of touch left the body. And then, they asked, "How is your situation now that this sense of touch have now left your body?" And they said, "Yeah, I'm living, I'm seeing, I can hear, but I cannot touch." Okay. So, then the sense of touch went back into the body. Then, the sense of sight left. So, then they asked the same question, "Yeah, I'm hearing, I'm touching, but I cannot see, but I can live and breathe," basically. So then, okay, the sense of sight went back. So, in this way, all of the five senses left one after another, and there was no big problem for the person to live. But then, prāṇa, which is the living force, left the body. And, as soon as he just tried to exit, then all these senses were just completely choked, like they they could not breathe, they could not exist. Immediately, just, "No, you have to return, you have to go back. We we cannot live without prāṇa." So then, the prāṇa went back into the body.
And there, it is then said, na vai vāco na cakṣūṁṣi na śrotrāṇi na manāṁsītyācakṣate prāṇa ityevācakṣate prāṇo hyevaitāni sarvāṇi bhavanti. "One does not call this a voice, an eye, an ear, or a mind. They are all called prāṇa."
So, what does it mean? That the voice, the sight, the ear, and so on, these are called prāṇa, because they depend fully on prāṇa for their very existence.
And, this is this is what I'm talking about, that everything is sometimes called God, because they depend completely on God for their very existence, functioning, cognition, and so on.
svarūpa-pramiti-pravṛtti-lakṣaṇa-sattā-traividhyaṁ parānapekṣaṁ svatantram, parāpekṣam asvatantram. This is from Jayatīrtha, an ācārya in our line, actually, in the Bhagavad-gītā. He is saying that this independent truth, God, He is independent in sense of His nature, His existence, His cognition, and His functioning. But, everything else depends on Him for that. So, so that is the real meaning behind these monistic statements.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said that dravyaṁ karma ca kālaś ca svabhāvo jīva eva ca. dravya means the physical things, basically. karma, action, kāla, time, svabhāva, nature, one's very nature, jīva, the individual soul. These things, yad-anugrahataḥ santi, they exist on the mercy of God. yad-anugrahataḥ, anugraha means mercy, or He gives the permission for them to exist. na santi yad-upekṣayā, and by God's by His disregard, they will cease to exist.
And, the same thing is said in Bhagavad-gītā, tad asti vinā yat syāt mayā bhūtaṁ carācaram. That never no thing, whether moving or non-moving, can exist without Me.
mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva, this is from the seventh chapter. mayi sarvam, everything in Me, they are strung on Me like on a thread, sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva, like pearls are strung on a thread.
So, that is the meaning of sarva-bhūtāni bhagavaty api cātmani. They exist on the Super Soul. They everything is existing on Him, Prabhupāda says.
So, I will just conclude by giving a very fascinating thing that I found, which is related to this point: that God is the self of everyone, and He He is the very one who gives existence. Not only that He He produced everything, but by His very will, everything continues to exist. If He He refuses to or if He disregards things, they will cease to exist.
In the Upaniṣad, we have the statements ahaṁ brahmāsmi. ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am Brahman. And, it can, of course, mean also that we are Brahman in the sense that we are spirit. That, that's what Prabhupāda usually says about this statement, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am spirit. But, there is a deeper meaning here also. It is actually a name of God. Aham is a name of God. Aham means I. Brahma is a name of God. Asmi, which is a verb, to be, of first person, "I am," asmi. All the three words: aham, brahma, and asmi, are names of God, if you break them down. And, this is the meaning what I said in the beginning, that all words glorify the Supreme.
So, aham means I. But, if you break it down, it it means ahāya. If you break it down like etymologically, it means s- something that cannot be rejected, it cannot be discarded. Therefore, God is known as aham. He is the one who we cannot disregard. He is He is the very self of our self. Even if you become an atheist, you refuse to acknowledge God, you can actually not exist without Him, you cannot function without Him. There is no way of disregarding Him. Therefore, He is known as aham.
And asmi, which means I am, also means that is a name of God, because He is the measure of everything's existence. as means existence, and mi means measure, or He is the very foundation of all existence. Therefore, He is known as asmi.
And, this idea, aham, that "I am" is a name of God. This comes also in the Old Testament, if you see. Moses, he asked God, "What is Your s- what is Your name? What should I say to the children of Israel when they ask what is Your name?" Then, He said, God said to Moses, "I am that I am. This is My name. I am that I am."
And, same thing in the Zend-Avesta, which is the scripture of the Zoroastrian tradition. This is actually very old. It's older than Old Testament. It's very similar to Sanskrit, the Zend-Avesta, the language is very, very similar. For example, the word asmi, "to be, I am," in the Zend-Avesta, is ahmi, ahmi. With the they just change the s to an h. ahmi. So, it's very similar to Sanskrit. And there, it is also said that Zarathustra, which is the their sage, basically, or their prophet, they said, he spoke to God, "Tell me then, O pure Ahura Mazda, the name which is thy greatest, best, fairest, and which is most efficacious for prayer." Thus answered Ahura Mazda, Ahura Mazda is the name of their god, "My first name is ahmi, ahmi, which is asmi, I am. And, my 20th name is ahmi yad ahmi mazdā. I am that I am."
So, this is just to show that this idea, yo sāv asau puruṣaḥ so ham asmi, aham asmi, this is from Īśopaniṣad. aham asmi is name of God. This is not just some some something that is very how to say, obscure thing. It's it's there in other traditions also, in the very old scriptures from the Western tradition, that this is a mystic, like esoteric name of God.
So, this is a way to to approach the scriptures in a deeper sense, that we we don't only see the surface meaning, we only also see that God is actually glorified all over the place. Even when it seems like, oh, this is now Agni is praised as the supreme devatā, the purohitam, the, yeah, the one who is in many ways, He is glorified. But, we should understand that all these words are glorifying the Supreme.
Yeah.
So, we have 10 minutes, if anyone has any question or comment. Yes, ma.
Female voice: Thank you, that was very interesting. You spoke about this, this misconception of interpretation of śāstra, and that interpretation is necessary as this foundational principle of understanding. But, we should also avoid putting our own flawed ideas and values and opinions in. But, I was wondering, because the mind is so strong that it sometimes, like, hears what it wants to hear, and creates interpretations of, like, the same thing, like, things that you already have and half-understood.
Speaker: Yeah, so one thing is that we have to be sincere to see, like, to want, we have to have the intention that we want to understand the meaning of the text, not that we want something else. And then, we have to look at everything, like, we have to not see statements in the isolation. But, the more practical thing is to take guidance from someone who has the full picture. And, that is the ācārya, basically. He has the full picture. So, to and, if you see like Prabhupāda's purports, many times, he interprets the verse. You cannot avoid. Like, sometimes, people criticize Prabhupāda in Bhagavad-gītā for bringing his own ideas. But, everyone has like not own ideas, I mean they have to explain the verse, and they have to because the, if you have the whole picture, you will sometimes have to add things to to make it understandable, to to bring out the intended meaning, basically. So, so that is the practical answer. We have to take shelter of someone who who knows.
And, the third thing, if one wants to go deep into śāstra, there is a science of interpretation from the Veda Vedic tradition. There is a science. It's not it's not just up to everyone's fancy to to interpret. There are very clear principles explained how to interpret. So, those one can also look at. Of course, it's a whole science and it takes many years if you want to study it completely. But, if one would like to go deep into śāstra, it is there. Instead of having concocted hermeneutics, there is a scientific Vedic hermeneutics, so to follow.
Anything else? Yes.
Male voice: You spoke about the the Vedas that they always glorify if we break it down, right? So, when Kṛṣṇa says in Gītā in the second chapter, almost, that these flowery words of the Vedas, and also that vedās traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā, like they deal mainly with the three modes of nature. So, then He speaks about this superficial understanding, or is that?
Speaker: Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly, He He speaks about when you see yeah, when you don't see the parā-vidyā, basically, the the supreme science, the science about God. When you don't see that, and you are attracted by the flowery words, basically, oh, you will go to heaven. But, there is a deeper meaning there, and if you don't see that, that's what they criticize. So, in the Bhāgavatam, this traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā, it means that the Vedas have as their subject the triguṇa, the three guṇas. But, if you go to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it says, vedā brahmātmaka-viṣayā. vedā brahmātmaka-viṣayā, yeah, that the Vedas have as their subject, God. That is what is said in the Bhāgavatam. So, we have to, again, there is a contradictory like two two statements which says different things. Then, we have to harmonize it somehow. And, what what Kṛṣṇa is saying when He says traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā, the Vedas speak about the three guṇas, it means on the superficial level, and one who is get attracted with that superficial meaning, he becomes bewildered, basically, and he he he does not he cares more about heavenly reward than attainment of of God. You can read, if you read Madhvācārya's comment on on these verses, this is what he says, that it is on the superficial level. Because in if you look at Nirukta, which is a science of etymology, it's a very old, ancient Vedic science of etymology, you will see there that they speak about different meanings of the Vedas on different levels. There is ādhyātmika meaning, there is adhiyājñika meaning, a meaning which is related to sacrifice, and then there is a adhidevika meaning, which is relating to the gods. And, every statement can be interpreted on all these three levels. So, in the Ṛgveda, Madhvācārya has given explanation of the first 40 Sūktas. And there, he explains all the different kinds of meanings for one verse. In one in one sense, it may talk about the gods, in the in the sense of sacrifice, so we we worship that god and so on. Because the gods are also real, like they are they are there also. But, another meaning is adhyātma meaning, meaning there is some mystic meaning, like yogic meaning, that Agni may denote something in our in ourself. And, that there is a jñāna-yajña, Kṛṣṇa speaks about that in Bhagavad-gītā, the jñāna-yajña, which is a yajña which takes part inside the mind, where one offers the sense objects in the fire of controlled mind, something that. So, these kind of meanings are also there in the same verse can be an adhyātmika meaning. And then, there is the meaning which is called parama-mukhya-vṛtti, where everything glorifies God, if you take etymological meanings. So, it's not just, it may be too simplified to say, oh, all Vedas glorify the Supreme only. It's not like that, like the there is levels of meanings. And, if you just see the superficial meaning, then Kṛṣṇa criticized that as you become bewildered by this flowery language.
Yes, Prabhu.
Male voice: You spoke about this vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, that Kṛṣṇa is everything, and You are everything because You enter into everything. Would that also be like, Kṛṣṇa is everything, He has everything, He has preeminently everything, and could not be?
Speaker: Which which verses?
Male voice: The 11th chapter of Gītā.
Speaker: I can't say, yeah. I thought there was a lecture I was listening on this topic. And, he gave he made a very funny experiment with everyone. He took, is it Rādhikā Ramaṇa Prabhu? He handed out everyone oranges, in the everyone got oranges, and he said, "So, now everyone point to the orange." So, everyone was pointing to the orange. And then, he said, "Now, peel the orange and put the peel there and then the orange there, and then point to the orange." Everyone pointed to the orange. So, just a few seconds earlier, he pointed to the orange when the peel was there, and then it's included, basically, in that. He was saying that, in that sense, as long as the energy is, kind of, an attribute to Kṛṣṇa, as long as we are an attribute to Kṛṣṇa, in that sense, we are one with Him, just like the sunshine is is the sun. But then, also, if you separate it and, like, analyze it, we're also different from Him, which I thought was a very kind of funny way to explain. Yeah. So, when when it's not peeled, you know, you point... So, you mean when we are attached to God?
Male voice: No, in the sense that we are we we, as when we are His, we are His energy. So, in that sense, we are one with Him, just like the sunshine is is the sun. But then, also, if you separate it and, like, analyze it, we're also different.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a yeah, it's a good, good good example. Another another analogy is often given with the spider and its web. Because the the spider, included in the spider, is its web. Like, it it comes from his very body. It's nothing but his saliva, I think, that's what they make the web out of. So, we cannot say that the web is different from the spider, because it's it's produced from his very body. But then, it's also different, because he he can make the web, and he can go away from there, and he can come back, and he is separate from it. So, in the same way, God is both same as His śakti and also different from it, so like that. Okay, I guess we should end here.
Śrīmad-Bhāgavataṁ kī jaya! Śrīla Prabhupāda kī jaya! Gaur Premanande, Hari Haribol. All glories to the assembled devotees. Thank you.